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Jaguar Memories


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#21 Lost Dragon

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 10:45 AM

Yeah Bill had a job to do whilst at Atari and obviously he had to build hype/consumer confidence, as it was his role to secure software for the Jaguar, but there's a point when you reach absurdity...


Better than Virtua Racing?

Well clearly NOT the coin-op as that ran in ran in 24 bit colour, with 16 bit colour backdrops,8 bit alpha channel as well, screen res of 496x384 and model 1 hardware generating 180,000 polygons a second and frame rate rarely drops below 30 FPS according to Yu Suzuki...


The Megadrive SVP version is pushing between 3,000 and 5,000 polys at frame rate of 12-15 FPS according to Yu Suzuki, but then your talking a 16 bit sprite based machine with a DSP chip on the cart.....


So your RISC based, custom chip heavy, 64 bit Jaguar had bloody better be out doing that or something is very off.

And if he means 32X version.....

I'll glady have what he's drinking.



#22 Lost Dragon

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 10:58 AM

:-) Another personal 1, but it always made me chuckle that whilst the very same Atari experts online would happily defend the Jaguar being a 64 Bit console and list chip breakdowns, databuses etc to prove this point and say Jaguar was 64 Bit where it needed to be, they'd then jump on Sega's claim of the Dreamcast being a 128 Bit console, claiming it was 64 Bit instead.

 

Yet both use similar hardware aspects in that they are 64 Bit/128 Bit where needed and not elsewhere.

 

 John Mathieson, "Jaguar has a 64-bit memory interface to get a high bandwidth out of cheap DRAM. ... Where the system needs to be 64 bit then it is 64 bit, so the Object Processor, which takes data from DRAM and builds the display is 64 bit; and the blitter, which does all the 3D rendering, screen clearing, and pixel shuffling, is 64 bit. Where the system does not need to be 64 bit, it isn't.

 

The DC (which even Jez San has admitted is 128 Bit) uses the SH-4 is a multiple bit CPU:

 

http://www.segatech.com/technical/cpu/

 


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#23 Lost Dragon

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 09:19 AM

Trip Hawkins commented on the matter back in the 3DO/Jaguar days:

 

"Their CPU is 16 bit.Ours is 32 bit, and our co-processors are a lot more powerful doing the graphics and sound.Atari has trouble getting good sound during gameplay because of how they set up their bus structure.It's only because of an ambiguity in the law they can even say 64 bit without having to explain what they mean."



#24 Lost Dragon

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 11:24 AM

I was always lead to believe the Jaguar had 1 over on consoles like 3DO and then later hardware like PS1 and Saturn, due to the hardware Z-Buffering, i was thinking, well it must of been like vital, as N64 went onto use it..cue me approaching Life Force Tenka (PS1) Coder, Martin Linklater to see how he got around it missing on PS1, but when you read quotes from likes of John Carmac:

 

"The jag has some stupid hardware for z buffering

   and gouraud shading, but I can just ignore it and tell the two

   27mhz risc chips to do EXACTLY what I want."

 

You really begin to wonder.......


Edited by Lost Dragon, 23 April 2016 - 11:44 AM.


#25 Lost Dragon

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 12:01 PM

Ok, i'm so NOT a technical person, but it seems whilst Hardware Z-Buffering was a feature of N64 and J\aguar, not a lot pof folks seemed to use it on either, due to it's system restraints?:

 

Factor 5:

"In terms of weaknesses we fought hard against the fill-rate limitations of the N64. We loved Hi-Res on Rogue because of its crisp look, but the framerate was questionable. So when starting the engines for both Indy and Naboo, the main goal was to get a high framerate in Hi-Res. This meant not using the Z-Buffer, because it alone uses quite a bit of the N64's fillrate."

 

http://uk.ign.com/ar...ing-indy-to-n64

 

If your top coders on each platform are not keen on it......pfff

 

 

:-)



#26 Lost Dragon

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:13 PM

John Carmack (I.D) talking about the Jaguar, back in March 2000:

 

 

"..The Jaguar was definitely significantly hampered by it's technical flaws which kept me from ever being too big of a Jaguar booster.I was proud of my work on Wolf and Doom....but in the end the better consoles won the war'

 

 

I also found this from an interview he did with Boot, back in Nov 1997, where he compared the Jaguar to MS's Project:Tailsman (an attempt to build new 3D architecture by quickly compositing 2D 'sub-images onto the screen)....

 

 

 

"....With Atari Jaguar programming, there was a way you could program their Video Controller to do layers.....a chain of layers could be combined, but they couldn't be scaled and translated'.



#27 Lost Dragon

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 01:24 PM

There was a claim doing the rounds Atari UK had hoped the Jaguar would of been able to go on sale at a RRP of around £100, but the custom chippers in the hardware pushed the price past the £200 bracket.

No idea if an ounce of truth to it,but I do remember claim being made..

Also,Jeff Minter being quoted as saying coding on Jaguar,compared to earlier systems like Falcon,konix,ST and Amiga he'd coded on,was like the difference between riding a bicycle and being strapped to a cruise Missile :-))

#28 Lost Dragon

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 03:06 PM

Scott Rogers (Alexandria), answering my question in the Unseen64 book, regarding what became of the Jaguar version of Return Fire:

 

Scott:The Jaguar was junk.It was supposedly hard to program for and the artwork couldn't look anywhere near as good as the 3DO version.In my humble opinion, it was a real dog of a console.......the conversion was pretty close to being done at that point.

 

 

Scott also talked of the conversion of Frankenstein:Through The Eyes Of The Monster being worked on and canned.



#29 Lost Dragon

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 04:46 PM

Few snippets from Justin Heyes-Jones , regarding Teque London's time with the Jaguar:

 

 

He can recal Lee Brigg's working tirelessly on WTR on the Jaguar CD, which of course Lee pushed to do some pretty advanced polygon 3D with textures (for the Jaguar), so far nothing new...

 

 

But he also remembers Sam Tramiel being in the offices of Teque for a week whilst Lee was coding the game and Sam 'helping' Lee with it and Lee giving Sam advice back in how to get the best from the Jaguar, in terms of advanced 3D.

 

Atari had such high hopes for the game and sent Teque the CD development kit and a Falcon...more on what happened to that in the Falcon thread :)

 

 

 

Justin said of WTR, it wasn't a great game, but tech/game engine powering it was very interesting in his view.

 

 

 

He also said Teque had wanted to be a 3DO developer, but were never awarded a contract, so Lee Briggs used the 3DO console as a CD player instead...


Edited by Lost Dragon, 09 October 2016 - 04:56 PM.

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#30 atarilbc

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 11:02 AM

The question for today's "12 Days of Jaguar Christmas" contest entry was "what is your favorite jaguar memory?" After typing my answer into the box, I recalled this thread and thought that I would share my (edited) response here too.

My favorite Jaguar memories involve playing co-op Raiden with my late cousin, Brian. We loved playing co-op titles going back to Double Dragon, Contra, Ikari Warriors and Battletoads on the NES. This love of co-op carried forward to high school, when I got my original Jaguar. Raiden is a great co-op experience on the Jaguar and we spent a lot of time playing it. In fact, we probably logged more time on Raiden than any other Jaguar game. I can almost feel the imprint of the living room's shag carpeting and gamer thumb when I think about it. Brian was killed in a car accident in 1997 just prior to his 18th birthday. Raiden remains one of my favorite Jaguar games due in large part to the time that we spent playing together. Firing up Raiden today always brings me back to those late nights on the living room floor, repelling alien invaders with my cousin and friend.
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