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NEW AVP prototype found!


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#41 Lost Dragon

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 08:09 AM

Taking a sideways look once more at the article, it does seem to suggest that even after all that's been put in the press at the time by Atari and written about it in the years since, a lot of writers seem totally unaware of a lot of annoucements made.....

 

So ok, yes a bit of proper research into the formats before sitting down to write up the article would of worked wonders, but it does make me question why so much is over looked.

 

 

This article is 1 of a good few i've come across over the years that seemed to have no idea Atari simply abandoned both the Lynx and Falcon, focusing on making a go of the Jaguar, with very limited resources.

 

I do find this aspect rather odd, as over here the press seemed very keen to keep us informed of just how much more money Atari had lost, how poorly hardware was doing, in fact you'd see ST mags in Summer/Autumn of '85 having to review PD/Shareware titles as there simply weren't any commercial ST releases, to review...

 

 

The Falcon had been covered, but then seemed to dissapear without a trace etc.

 

 

I get the impression 'we' here in UK often seemed to hear more from Atari UK than perhaps you guys heard from Atari in the USA?

 

Seemed to be more 'claims/reporting' on things like The Panther Console, with UK mags getting behind it, but there i assume as ST was at that point a strong market in UK, idea of an ST Super Console appealed more, where as ST situation in USA was very different?

 

 

 

 

 But even the 7800, with claims of Gauntlet/Gremlin bringing likes of Technocop/Turrican would be running at Atari show, WIP of Chronicles Of Cute etc etc, which whilst often sadly were seemingly  untrue, at least suggested Atari UK was doing the best it could to keep a presence and people informed.

 

 

In July'95 i think it was, Atari UK had annouced they were passing over the support aspect of the falcon and said Atari now had one brand, The Jaguar and 100% of Atari was about making it a success.

 

 

 

I get the impression this might not of been the case in the USA? Lynx support appeared to simply stop? people left wondering what on earth had become of likes of Cabal, Rolling Thunder, Vindicators etc?

 

 

Jaguar appeared in key areas, bigger cities/chain stores, but less so if at all the smaller towns?

 

 

I'd be very interested to learn more about the differences in the way Atari in the USA handled PR annoucements, retailer support, promotions etc compared to Atari UK's handling as they do appear an ocean apart.


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#42 nosweargamer

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 08:33 AM

 

I get the impression 'we' here in UK often seemed to hear more from Atari UK than perhaps you guys heard from Atari in the USA?

 

 

After Jack bought the company, it seems we heard very little compared from Atari. Sure, there were commercials, but for the most part they focused on the system and multiple games, rather than a single title. It seems like for every 10 NES commercials, there was one Atari ad. Even Sega seemed to do more promotion under Tonka. I remember seeing the Master System on Post cereal boxes. It seems they post most of their effort into "The Atari Advantage" promotion that gave you a poster in marked boxes and a chance to earn a game if you bought 15 titles.

 

There seemed to be even less magazine ads. Atari did try to make their own Nintendo Power with Atarian magazine, but again they did not advertise it much and I only happened to stumble upon it at a book store with a large selection of magazines. And it seems for the most part, gaming magazines treated Atari like the red headed step child. Perhaps this was due to politics and the fact that Atari simply didn't buy as many magazine ads as other companies. I wouldn't be surprised if a NES third party like Capcom or Konami spent more on ads than Atari. Recently I've been going through old comic books during this time and found no 7800 ads and only 1 Lynx ad.

 

Now I wasn't into computers much, but I knew about Tandy, Apple and Amiga. At the time (late 80's to 90's), I didn't even realize that Atari made computers until much later.

 

It is my impression that Atari Corp overall did better overseas than in the US. I heard some reports that the Lynx sold better in the UK and that Atari didn't send enough Jaguars to fulfill the UK demand at launch. It might also explain why the last two releases on the 2600 and 7800, Klax and Sentinel, made it to the UK but not here.

 

However, on the bright side we did get this ad:


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#43 Clint Thompson

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 08:37 AM

They went from big time video games to trying to corner the very serious computer market against Apple and IBM compatibles and then when the reality of decline set in that their sales of the STe and Falcon just weren't there to support the model, they rushed back into gaming... only the guys running it didn't really know or understand gaming as much as they knew or understood computers.

 

Atari should have continued to push their Lynx alongside the Jaguar and I think they actually did for a very short period of time. The model was already there and so was the experience. AvP could have been an incredible portable game for the time. I've had very limited Game Gear experience with mostly just playing Sonic Spinball and a few others but could certainly see the appeal of wanting a system for the same game that was responsible for selling a lot of Jaguars as well.

 

I don't remember it being the case but every single Jaguar should have shipped with a Lynx brochure and games list. Wouldn't do you any good if you can't go down to your local store to pick up whatever game but mail order was definitely an option. I was really young and had already ordered quite a few things, especially PC software games, via mail order. Didn't mind it and it was nice having things come in the mail for me.

 

Anyways, for me... however I ended up stumbling upon the Lynx after getting a Jaguar, worked. I owned both the Jaguar, Lynx and then would go on to purchase a Jaguar CD for my birthday in 1995. Really wanted a Falcon too at the time but little did I know how limited it was in terms of software and games and the expense really put it far out of my reach.


Edited by Clint Thompson, 31 August 2016 - 08:37 AM.

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#44 Lost Dragon

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 08:55 AM

This is great stuff, please, keep your thoughts coming :)

 

 

I can remember Atari UK explaining just how costly TV advertising was over here and how they'd rather put money into magazine advertising instead, but we did get short commercials promoting the 520ST and the fact it was more than just a games machine:

 

http://www.google.co...b49ZDJTSH3F5pNA

 

 

 

 

 

When i was looking into The Panther, i could find very little US Magazine coverage, compared to UK Magazine coverage, plus having spoken to Guildo and Jim Gregory, it appears Atari in the USA kept little or no record of them being signed up Panther developers? as i'd seen Atari Historians state the ONLY Panther games in development were Cybermorph (which Shinto's source from atari Corp seems to suggest was never started on Panther), Crescent Galaxy (ditto) and Plasma Pong..nothing ever hinted at about Hand Made software having a dev.kit, nor Guildo and The Crypt very much being real.

 

 

 

On the flipside, it seemed UK Press did an awful lot of speculation, which was reported as FACT (sadly something that still goes on to this very day), with them either assuming that conversions would appear at later date on A8, 7800, ST etc, without bothering to check with UK software houses, we'd also see bold statements from Atari Uk regarding how there'd suddenly be this huge increase in developer support as Atari UK had been talking to them, new hardware models shown off (XEGS, STE, Falcon) and it's only now coming to light how they got folks like Rebellion who thought they'd being doing a Falcon title, to jump straight into Jaguar, how Audiogenic were 'snubbed' as a Jaguar developer etc....

 

 

Atari did seem to knee-jerk an awful lot between what they thought was the future...

 

 

The A8 range flipped between being pushed as a games platform to serious micro, back to games platform again, ditto the ST/STE range....

 

 

It seemed Atari were trying to take on the Mac, The Amiga then realising just how big a market the NES, MS, MegaDrive, SNES, PC Engine etc were, so 7800 was dusted off, XEGS churned out, Panther annouced, Lynx etc etc....

 

Atari always seemed to be reacting to what others did and expected the lower price point to see them barge ahead...



#45 Lost Dragon

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 09:20 AM

Regarding the not enough Jaguars for UK at launch aspect :)

 

 

Ahhhh, yes, much has been written about this, with...'some' going along with the thinking Atari UK could of sold anything upto 20X the small number they recieved in the inital wave and IF they'd had the stocks there and then, everything would of been rosy for the Jaguar etc etc....

 

 

Taking a far more balanced view here, Atari UK had done some superb 'build up' work to get Press/Public behind the Jaguar, even Commodore Magazines like C.U Amiga were praising the hardware, saying how promising games like C.Flag were looking, it really did back then appear to be a Virtua Racing beater.

 

 

Magazines like C+VG also full of praise for Jaguar (and indeed 3DO), also Gamesmaster Magazine previewing likes of Tempest 2000, Freelancer on Jag CD (which we now know used fake screens from PC version)..mail order companies were listing the Jaguar's impressive tech specs which on paper seemed to dwarf the 3DO's and Jaguar was so much cheaper...

 

 

So yes, i do believe places like Virgin Megastore etc did take a high number of pre-orders, which they were unable to fulfil, as they only recieved perhaps 3-5 consoles per store! which sounds crazy and Atari did take flak from retailers saying the inital launch had been poorly handled as they were the ones taking the crap from customers/parents etc left empty handed and so Atari really should of waited until it had enough units avaiable to fullfill orders, rather than drip feeding units in.

 

 

If i was cynical, i might suggest it was in part a calculated move on Atari's part?..limit supplys, create artifical demmand and lap up press coverage as Jaguar becomes the system 'everyone wants, no-one could get'....

 

 

However, even IF Atari had supplied say 5X the amount of units it did, you'd of been back in same situation you were when Atari did stock clearance of it's 800XL systems, offloading them to UK High Street stores.....

 

 

 

Whilst you get an inital spike in the user base, rival systems are still selling strong (as MD/SNES were when Jaguar launched) and unless PUBLISHERS are convinced these user base figures are going to keep going up and up and people will rush out and buy software, they are not going to start developing titles....

 

 

So many have said on record that poor sales of existing software on A8, ST, 7800, Lynx and Jaguar put a stop to any future titles being developed.

 

 

More Jaguars at UK Launch would simply of meant more up for sale when Saturn/PS1 hit or buyers discovered the expected river of Triple-A Jaguar titles Atari had promised were not appearing, nor were they ever going to.



#46 Lost Dragon

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 10:01 AM

I think for future, What If Atari had...type articles, writers need to understand 1 key point..to put it in a rather crude manner, Atari simply had to either p*ss or get off the proverbial pot.

 

 

It's all well and good having PR releases intended to say to consumers, don't buy platform X now, wait till we release Platform Y, it'll be faster/more powerful and cheaper as well, because once people cotton on your claims were wide of the mark, you fet the kind of reputation that sticks.

 

 

The STE was NOT (hardware wise) the Amiga Beater Atari had implied and the promised STE only titles never appeared in expected numbers as it was seen as too little, too late.

 

The CD ST never appeared and the Commodore CDTV being a flop was probably the main reason, but it's yet another platform Atari annouced, never delivered.

 

The Falcon and Falcon Specific games, fell way short of what Commodore achieved with the A1200

 

The Panther, out right cancelled, so were gamers really going to ignore Genesis/SNES and wait even longer for the Jaguar?

 

Hyping up KEY Lynx titles like Rolling Thunder, Cabal etc only never to deliver them, is NOT the best way to instill consumer confidence you'll be delivering big name titles on Jaguar, is it?

 

You want your platforms remembered for the amazing titles you WERE playing, not those you'd of loved to of played....


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#47 marigul

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:55 PM

I don't recall any serious convo about the lynx being a motion tracker. We probably had it but it was probably wishful lunch time conversation....


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#48 marigul

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:58 PM

The lynx was a great system, but the price tag and battery life made it a tough sell against the gameboy. The gameboy was cheap durable, had almost infinite battery life and mario, zelda and tetris...very tough to go up against that.


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#49 Lost Dragon

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:48 AM

@Marigul:

 

Great points and UK advertising wise, Nintendo really capitalized on the portable aspect of the GB, whilst at the same time, marketing it as the coolest gizmo, so you had arty style black and white photos of uber cool looking male model bloke with GB in his back pocket or playing whilst he had the latest fashionable haircut :)

 

With the Lynx, you needed something like a blazer pocket or carry bag to take it with you, nowhere near as cool :)

 

Plus Nintendo really seemed to grasp what made for a suitable handheld game, where as atari, went for the technical showcase games like Shadow Of The beast, Hard Drivin, Dracula etc, but when games like Dracula had no password or save game settings, you couldn't just dip in and out, Hard Drivin was blighted by over sensitive controls, lot of impact lost on small screen and limited gameplay.






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