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Anyone else very dissapointed by (released) Star Raiders II?


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#1 Lost Dragon

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 08:05 AM

I was a huge fan of the original Star Raiders on the 2600 and Atari 8 bit range, but whilst the game we recieved as a sequel, looked lovely, espically on the A8, playability wise, it felt soooo limited in comparison.

 

I was quite surprised to see it get the praise it did in a recent RG article featuring it.

 

 

Any fans on here?

 

 

Thought i'd throw up a few mag scans of reviews of it at the time in the UK.

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#2 Rowsdower70

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 08:23 AM

I honestly never had an Atari 8-bit, so I never played it.   I love the original though, sucks when more is not better .:)


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#3 Lost Dragon

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 08:31 AM

I really was the A400/800 'Killer App', a number of high profile UK Coders have talked about getting hold of the hardware back then (bloody expensive) just to play this game.

 

The sequel (well, semi, given it's development history) looked far better, but had all the playability of a brick :(

 

 

To make matters even worse, the ST version of Star Raiders was even bloody worse.

 

 

How Atari could make such an utter pigs ear of a killer franchise, was at the time beyond me, but as history went onto show, if anyone could kill the Golden Goose, Atari damn well could.

 

 

Few more UK Scans whilst i'm here.

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#4 RickR

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 09:09 AM

It was supposed to be a game based on the movie "The Last Starfighter", if I recall correctly.  At some point, Atari decided to make it a sequel to Star Raiders instead.  I agree, not a worthy successor.

 

Star Raiders is probably my all-time favorite game.  Star Raiders 2 is more like 2600 "Solaris", only not as fun.  It's got great graphics, but the game just doesn't flow or make much sense.  I've read the manual and still don't really get it. 


Edited by RickR, 29 March 2017 - 10:42 AM.

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#5 Lost Dragon

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 11:50 AM

Yep, and even before it was The Last starfighter, it had started out as a stand alone game, typical bloody Atari, just change something that had started out as an original concept, just to suit the cash-in of the moment...sigh.

 

 

This C64 game looked a lot worse than Star Raiders II, but was by far the better game:

 

 

 

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#6 kamakazi20012

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:50 PM

I bought Star Raiders II when I first discovered it in 2005.  I got it with my 800 purchase from V61.  I thought the game was OK and actually did beat it...but I also felt the game was lacking.  I also thought it was cheap that they reused the same box art that was used on the original Star Raiders for the 8-bits.

 

Once I discovered emulators I found a 5200 emulator and bunch of ROMs...one of which was a Last Starfighter prototype download.  I started to play it and thought to myself, "I've played this before."  It didn't take me long to notice it was Star Raiders II.  It's not a bad game but I feel it missed what the original was about.  


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#7 Lost Dragon

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 07:09 PM

Yep, you take a stand alone game, decide ohhh few changes and that'll save us having to do a game from scratch for a Movie Tie-In so it gets reworked to suit that need, film tanks at box office so ends up getting reworked again and put out on the cheap.

 

Reviews are a personal thing, but when i was assisting Greyfox with Atari gamer magazine, i had my head in my hands when a contributor had awarded Star Raiders II 10/10...it just smacked of fanboy and i was concerned scores like this weren't doing us any favours.

 

The game soon becomes very boring as there's so little variety and thus play soon becomes tedious.

 

Game went down well on ZX Spectrum with YS giving it 8/10, S.U a full 5/5, but CRASH  seemed more grounded and gave it 52% saying gameplay was merely of the Left, Right and Fire variety.

 

 

Never seen Amstrad CPC version so cannot comment.

 

 

Atari could of at least altered the sprites and made the gameplay less arcadey, that way it would of stayed truer to the classic original.



#8 Scott Stilphen

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 08:24 PM

Yep, and even before it was The Last starfighter, it had started out as a stand alone game,

 

 

I had a copy of Last Starfighter back in the mid-80s (don't remember it being anything else before that back then.  Where did you hear that?)  Got Star Raiders II when it came out.  No comparison - Last Starfighter was the better version.


Edited by Scott Stilphen, 30 March 2017 - 12:13 PM.

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#9 Lost Dragon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 07:59 AM

Claim was made in a UK Magazine, though fact i've thrown out so many over past 18 months means finding it would be nigh on impossible :)

 

But then this IS UK Press we are talking about..i'm sure it existed alongside versions of A8 Adam Caveman and 7800 Turrican that were claimed to be running at events or was being worked on alongside A8 Druid 2, 7800 Gauntlet, ST Nebulus II, Lynx Ultra Star Raiders with Minter coding...

 

 

Maybe it was the mythical Mists Of Xenon they were thinking of? AKA Rescue On Fractulas II that popped up?.

 

 

That's been the issue with UK Press..claims simply made based on speculation/fabrication/missunderstandings/assumptions etc and it gets printed as fact....

 

 

what makes Last Starfighter the better game in your view?

 

I belive the refueling options differ...

 

Presentation better on Last Starfighter but at expense of more limited functions in game?, no shields which changes gameplay, speed of ship varies in deep space etc.



#10 Lost Dragon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 08:19 AM

I take it back (unless magazine was quoting from the website) the claim, which has NO SOURCE to reference it from, GRRRR is here:

 

"....Unfortunately the home version was nothing like the planned arcade game, but rather a shooting/strategy game similar to Star Raiders.  The reason for this is simple, this game originally started out as a totally separate game called Orbiter.  It wasn't until Orbiter was about 35% done that Atari decided that it would make a perfect candidate to be reprogrammed into The Last Starfighter (only preserving a small amount of the original code). "

 

http://www.atariprot...e/tlsf/tlsf.htm

 

Can anyone confirm or deny this claim?



#11 Scott Stilphen

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 08:47 AM

Claim was made in a UK Magazine, though fact i've thrown out so many over past 18 months means finding it would be nigh on impossible :)

 

But then this IS UK Press we are talking about..i'm sure it existed alongside versions of A8 Adam Caveman and 7800 Turrican that were claimed to be running at events or was being worked on alongside A8 Druid 2, 7800 Gauntlet, ST Nebulus II, Lynx Ultra Star Raiders with Minter coding...

 

 

Maybe it was the mythical Mists Of Xenon they were thinking of? AKA Rescue On Fractulas II that popped up?.

 

 

That's been the issue with UK Press..claims simply made based on speculation/fabrication/missunderstandings/assumptions etc and it gets printed as fact....

 

 

what makes Last Starfighter the better game in your view?

 

I belive the refueling options differ...

 

Presentation better on Last Starfighter but at expense of more limited functions in game?, no shields which changes gameplay, speed of ship varies in deep space etc.

 

The big difference with SRII is the addition of a shield.  Selecting weapons is now done with the 'W' key instead of SELECT.  Refueling is the same, but it's almost immediate in Star Raiders II, so as soon as you fly to the sun, you need to immediately fly somewhere else or you're dead.  And flying to the sun doesn't repair your ship - you have to go to a space station, which takes longer. When on a planet in SRII, moving up or down causes the planet to spin faster or slower.  This become rather annoying when trying to shoot fighters.  Fighting in space shows a starfield that you're constantly flying through, even though you shouldn't be moving.  To me, TLS is just more fun to play and less complicated than SRII.  They (the programmers Gary Stark and Bruce Poehlman) tried to turn a pure action game into something more like Star Raiders, which it never felt like.

 

Here's an old article where someone reviewed both versions: http://www.atarihq.c...mp/lastsr2.html

 

And as with most games from the Warner era, Tramiel took years to release finished games.  All the changes (although for some reason left the Last Starfighter theme music in!) were done by 1985, but it wasn't released until 2 years later (yet another example of how Tramiel was anti-gaming the first few years).  But why Tramiel went with renaming LSF SRII when a true SRII sequel was developed and should have been released instead (http://www.atarimani...s-ii_30426.html) is yet another unsolved mystery.

 

I remember what Last Starfighter was now.  This originally started as a game called Orbiter.


Edited by Scott Stilphen, 30 March 2017 - 12:20 PM.

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#12 Scott Stilphen

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 08:50 AM

I take it back (unless magazine was quoting from the website) the claim, which has NO SOURCE to reference it from, GRRRR is here:

 

"....Unfortunately the home version was nothing like the planned arcade game, but rather a shooting/strategy game similar to Star Raiders.  The reason for this is simple, this game originally started out as a totally separate game called Orbiter.  It wasn't until Orbiter was about 35% done that Atari decided that it would make a perfect candidate to be reprogrammed into The Last Starfighter (only preserving a small amount of the original code). "

 

http://www.atariprot...e/tlsf/tlsf.htm

 

Can anyone confirm or deny this claim?

 

Yep.  Mentioned Orbiter on my old Easter egg page on Digital Press years ago: http://www.digitpres...starfighter.htm

 

IIRC, the Orbiter info came from either Bruce or Gary (possibly from an old interview).  I've been offering a reward to anyone who can figure out how to trigger the Star Trek Enterprise Easter egg to appear in LSF for some 16 years now:

 

http://www.ataricomp...eggcontest.html

 

Someone made me a hacked version showing it appearing, but that's as close as I got.


Edited by Scott Stilphen, 30 March 2017 - 09:02 AM.

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#13 Lost Dragon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 12:16 PM

Sweet.Confirmed sources are what's needed.

 

 

But indeed given the fact then Star Raiders 2 underwent a number of changes, little wonder i've never taken to it in the manner i did the original, it's kinda like the proverbial red headed stepchild i guess?



#14 Scott Stilphen

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:28 PM

Douglas Neubauer also made a Star Raiders sequel for the NES that was never released:

http://www.gamasutra...pace_opera_.php

 

And here's more info on the real Star Raiders sequel for the Atari 800: 

http://atariage.com/...raiders sequel


Edited by Scott Stilphen, 30 March 2017 - 02:29 PM.

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#15 Lost Dragon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:53 PM

Bit off topic, but game seemed inspired by Star Raiders in places..

 

Could anyone get into PSI 5 Trading Company? 

 

It had great reviews here in UK, looked great, but man, try as i might i just found the damn thing far too confusing.

 

Even featured in Eagle Comics Computer warrior Comic strip, so clearly had it's fans...

 

http://www.zzap64.co...zap&check=1

 

http://www.google.co...OEdIeW_FDKgsefQ

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#16 Video 61

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 02:18 AM

I was a huge fan of the original Star Raiders on the 2600 and Atari 8 bit range, but whilst the game we recieved as a sequel, looked lovely, espically on the A8, playability wise, it felt soooo limited in comparison.

 

I was quite surprised to see it get the praise it did in a recent RG article featuring it.

 

 

Any fans on here?

 

 

Thought i'd throw up a few mag scans of reviews of it at the time in the UK.

i love the game. i never like the original so much. it was ok.


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#17 BlackCatz40

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 10:30 PM

There is also the unreleased prototype Star Raiders II by Aric Wilmunder. He was secretly making it, but never finished it. Atari chose the current SR2 instead. You can get it, and I think AtariAge has the file. I do not know the link at this time. Thanks.



#18 BlackCatz40

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 02:35 PM

Whoops! I did not see those links about the unreleased SR2, by Mr. Wilmunder. Sorry. I'll look at them. 


Edited by BlackCatz40, 30 July 2017 - 02:37 PM.


#19 Video 61

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 01:05 AM

I really was the A400/800 'Killer App', a number of high profile UK Coders have talked about getting hold of the hardware back then (bloody expensive) just to play this game.

 

The sequel (well, semi, given it's development history) looked far better, but had all the playability of a brick :(

 

 

To make matters even worse, the ST version of Star Raiders was even bloody worse.

 

 

How Atari could make such an utter pigs ear of a killer franchise, was at the time beyond me, but as history went onto show, if anyone could kill the Golden Goose, Atari damn well could.

 

 

Few more UK Scans whilst i'm here.

 agreed on the ST version. but then again, there are other ST versions atari did that were not so great either.

 

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#20 peteym5

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 03:53 AM

What happened with "The Last Starfighter" was the deal between Atari and Universal studios fell apart. Maybe it had something to do with Jack Tremiel taking over because it was happening around the same time. The copy of "The Last Starfighter" popped up on BBS, maybe the programmer posted it to get revenge for being fired when the Tremiels reduced the Atari workforce. But instead of dumping a complete game, they changed the title into Star Raiders II. Also there was a true sequel to Star Raiders in the works at Atari but not sure what the whole back story on that was. That other Star Raiders II that got posted on Atari Age, might had been a home brew.


Edited by peteym5, 23 August 2017 - 03:59 AM.





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