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The Sega games we could have seen on Atari Jaguar.. with supporting documentation, not speculation


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#1 Lost Dragon

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 12:16 PM

One thing that stuck out in my mind as a Jaguar owner, was Atari winning the court case it took out against Sega, over a Joystick port patent issue... Sega, if I recal, settled out of court, paying X amount for the infringement ($50 Million?) and buying another hefty amount ($40 Million? in Atari Corp Stock), don't quote me on actual payout figures, all i do know is it gave Atari a much needed injection of cash... The KEY thing about the deal was the proposed cross-licensing deal, that could see Atari owned games appearing on Sega platforms and of course, Sega owned games appearing on Jaguar. There was a fair amount of speculation over which titles would appear on Jaguar (as that was the platform that badly needed the shot-in-the arm) at the time, but every time Sam Tramiel was asked about which Sega titles were headed to Jaguar, he replied they were as of yet undecided..etc. That of course led to some very rabid speculation that Jaguar would be playing host to Daytona USA (using the Hoverstrike CD Game engine, no, I swear one supposed Atari expert suggested that)..Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing etc etc..all the big, 32bit releases...the actual reality was far, far different, as you can see by the documents attached below: *As always, huge thanks to Scott Stilphen for the Zip files.

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#2 Lost Dragon

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 12:37 PM

So, pure pipe dream's of Virtua Fighter or Daytona USA appearing and personally, i feel that was just as well...Fight for Life was pale imatation of 32X Virtua Fighter, let alone saturn version and that's before we even strech to Saturn VF:Remix.

 

It too Sega themselves 2 attempts to get decent Daytona USA Game engine (C.E) on Saturn and the  Dreamcast to get a quality home version.

 

As good as Jaguar CD WTR was and Lee B had an improved version of the Game engine under his belt, WTR is a generation or 2 behind Daytona USA, Jaguar cannot handle the geometry needed for a game of this nature.

 

Even with improved handling patch, Rebellion's C.Flag II on Jaguar is no 32X Virtua Racing (but rhen Time warner themselves messed up Saturn version).

 

And i shudder to think who Atari would of approached to handle such conversions...Tiertex?, Imagitec Design? LMAO 

 

 

The Jaguar badly needed something like Phantasy Star, Shining Force and Streets Of Rage, but these would of been long in the tooth and i dunno...why would you pay say £54 for Jaguar SOR when the Genesis had the far superior SOR 2 at lower price? (SOR 3 bit of a duffer i find)..and same applies to Phantasy Star....better versions out on older system at cheaper price.

 

 

Outrunners seems to split opinion:

 

Sega-16.com Genesis Jan 17, 2008 9 out of 10 

SEGA-Mag (Objectif-SEGA) Genesis Apr 20, 2011 8 out of 10 

GamePro (US) Genesis Aug, 1994 4 out of 5 

 

 

3 GOOD reviews Vs:

 

 

Mean Machines Genesis Aug, 1994 50 out of 100 

Video Games Genesis Oct, 1994 45 out of 100 

Power Unlimited Genesis Jul, 1995 4.3 out of 10 

Game Players Genesis Aug, 1994 41 out of 100 

Video Games & Computer Entertainment Genesis Oct, 1994 4 out of 10 

Mega Fun Genesis Jul, 1994 28 out of 100 

MEGA 20%

 

7 Dire reviews....

 

 

Zaxxon 3D is that the Sega Master System version they refer to?

 

Again, Marmite reviews:

 

Generation 4 80/100

 

Video Games Critic 75

 

C+VG 7/10

 

Tilt 12/20

 

VideoGame 60

 

Power Play 3/10.

 

 

There's nothing really there i could see doing anything to reverse fourtunes of the Jaguar and more Genesis ports were the last thing it needed.

 

Still at least folks now get an idea of just what was being considered.


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#3 RickR

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 01:19 PM

These letters are a goldmine. 


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#4 Lost Dragon

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 02:37 PM

Tell me about it :)

 

We as a community have SO MUCH to thank Scott for, in sharing these.

 

Even when i was contacting people from Core design, Bullfrog, Tiertex, Domark, Virgin, Epyx, Thalion, I.D, Atari UK, Ataricorp etc etc, directly to get heads up on lost Lynx/Jaguar/Panther and 7800 titles, i still saw some (bizzare) attempts to discredit myself and the findings...and there was still this 'Elitist' undertone doing the rounds...

 

I didn't write for any professional publication, so what on earth did i think i was doing contacting these people?

 

And there was an awful lot still of the 'we know people, who have documents....' and NO attempt to openly share info with much wider community...

 

Well the fact so many of us are out there talking to Ex-Coders, artists, musicians, studio heads, P.R people etc should of been a big enough wake up call...

 

If not, welcome to the modern age, yes OTHER PEOPLE had Internat atari Documents and YES, they are now being shared FREELY.

 

And YES....we did reach people the 'experts' missed and yes the finds keep coming :)

 

 

 

Working as a COMMUNITY so much great work has been done in clearing up so many Atari related myths and people on here have played a huge role in making that happen and continue to do so.

 

 

I think the combined 'Database' of Atari (covering the 2600, A8, 5200, 7800, Panther, ST, Lynx, Falcon, Jaguar and Jaguar CD ), is something this site should be very proud of.

 

The community made it happen.

 

The community said:You know what..we aren't going to settle for Press claims, speculation, supposed Expert Knowledge from the more vocal people in wider area, no we can do better....

 

We can research, question, do our very best to get multiple source answers and abopve all else SHARE the info.

 

 

Sure, we all know each new document that goes up is being copied to outsiders HDD's etc..but hey if it stops the spread of missinformation, speculation and utter batshit claims that's blighted the Atari scene for far too long, that can only be a good thing.

 

 

And IF it leads to more discoveries like 7800 Paperboy, Lynx/Panther Strider II,Panther The Crypt  etc, even if NO code found, at least we are preserving what we can, before it's gone for ever.


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#5 Greyfox

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 05:23 PM

Can somebody answer to why this information hasn't be uncovered by all these Atari Jaguar experts..don't make me laugh, as we all know how volatile the Atari Jagaur scene is all turning on each other like Hyinas or back stab each other when someone bring possible facts to the table? It's posts like this that truly shown the Atari Jaguar to be nothing more than a childish bunch of ole fella's banging on how great the once Atari Jaguar machine was . So to all you Jag fanboys and lovers out ther, embrace the information and stop pedalling that this or that could have being made or achieved ..who cares? This is history above , so many directions this could have all when in, rather than these expert wannabes that own a system think they can made bullshit up and pass it off as facts? Well boys and girls..the above is actual facts , so well done for uncovering it millennia ago..would have.saved Lost Dragon the minor amount of time he needed to present this.
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#6 Lost Dragon

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 06:00 PM

I fear IF it has come to light, like say Ocean's proposal document for Robocop on Jaguar, the narrow minded Elitist's have conspired to keep it from the greater community, after all if everyone knows it, you cannot proclaim yourself an expert and have an editor think YES, this is THE person we need to write our Atari feature.

 

I mean if you were paying out £600 of your budget, would you be happy knowing info was freely avaiable online/years old at a time your marketing dept was pushing the Exclusive content angle at your readership?

 

Or if your supposed Atari bible..X amount of years in making, interviews with..contained same info/quotes that a noob like myself had found or worse still, lacked the info, be a hard job selling it on it's merits, no matter how many false user accounts you created to rate it 5 stars.

 

 

And if your a rabid fanboy, would you really want folks to know at best Jaguar would of hosted more Genesis ports, not even 32X let alone saturn ports? :)

 

 

You can , in all seriousness though see why Sam Tramiel never told Edge etc when they asked about the planned Sega games, they would of had a field day.


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#7 TeddyGermany

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 03:19 AM

LOAD of the sword!!! :o Good LORD!!!! ;) 


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#8 Lost Dragon

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 03:27 AM

And to think the Atari writers/experts mocked MY spelling..the stuff in the official Docs/messages etc is AWFUL in numerous places :)


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#9 TeddyGermany

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 04:19 AM

The lack of games should had been filled with exclusive titles, not Genesis- or Saturn-conversions. There was no use for a conversion published two years after the original version. Best examples were T2K and AvP, which still are systemsellers for the Jag. Conversions like Doom were ok for filling the whole sprectrum of game genres, but not in first place. These was the main problem for the Jaguar and the 3DO, which also suffered, because there were no elaborate exclusives.


Edited by TeddyGermany, 08 July 2017 - 10:29 AM.

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#10 Lost Dragon

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:34 AM

Whilst i'm very glad we never saw those highlighted Genesis games on Jaguar, i wish Atari had used the money from Sega to fund the development of titles like:

 

Black ice/White Noise

 

Dactyl Joust

 

Legions Of The Undead.

 

Possibly the 3 most promising titles in terms of exclusives.

 

I'd also of loved to of seen Skyhammer get a commercial release.

 

Doom was a Killer App for the Jaguar, it proved Atari could get the biggest conversions and not have them comprimised, unlike 32X, Saturn and 3DO Doom..not really fair to moan at SNES Doom, only so much you can do with an extra DSP chip.

 

 

it's an old subject but settling for Fever Pitch as you couldn't get Fifa....bad, bad idea.Better to have nothing in a genre than medicore titles that smack of filler.

 

Having Virgin onboard seemed to be a double edged sword as well..wanting Aladin, but getting Dragon:Bruce Lee Story? yikes.

 

Discovering Creature shock was actually pretty sh*te...

 

 

Demolition Man not all that either.

 

Atari would of been far better off going after the exclusives Virgin were pitching to them, but probably through NO wisdom of their own, they dodged a bullet with Heart Of Darkness.


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#11 TeddyGermany

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:30 AM

And again you're right!


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#12 Lost Dragon

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:10 AM

There was a lot of expectation for Heart Of Darkness here in the UK and despite it's flaws, i still feel it would of been better suited to Jaguar CD than the PS ONE and might have been recieved far better.

 

It's frustrating to read Virgin and the studio behind the game wanted it on Jaguar, but Atari for whatever reason (i'd be in grounds of pure speculation to say why it never appeared)..didn't have it.

 

If it came down to the Jaguar either having this on Jaguar CD or Dragon:Bruce Lee Story on Cart, i know which would of done the system the bigger favour.



#13 Lost Dragon

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:12 AM

http://www.google.co...x1EOV4uBwwSxlhg

 

 

Tell me this wouldn't of been ideally suited to the Jaguar and it's ability to render high quality, 2D images in thousands of colours...



#14 marigul

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 02:48 PM

Honestly, I kind of only vaguely remember this...not quite sure why any of the Sega games never happened. Its possible that they wanted additional funds and we didn't have the resources to fully execute...(I'm sure they didn't want any of our stuff lol)


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#15 RickR

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 03:22 PM

.


Edited by RickR, 13 August 2017 - 10:26 PM.


#16 BlackCatz40

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:22 PM

I would have LOVED to see the two Phantasy Star games mentioned ported to the Jaguar, because I am a big PS fan. In fact, any and all of these Sega games would have boosted Atari's revenue because it would have increased the Jaguar library, for one. Heck, I would have wanted to see Space Harrier on the Jag. I bet, if done correctly, it would have been a knock-out game. The Jaguar would have had enough power inside it to render and, maybe, enhance the graphics. Sure, it was lacking RAM, but it could have been spectacular, anyway (I think it could have pulled it off), and I would have bought those games. Too bad.


Edited by BlackCatz40, 13 August 2017 - 10:25 PM.


#17 BlackCatz40

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:39 PM

Whilst i'm very glad we never saw those highlighted Genesis games on Jaguar, i wish Atari had used the money from Sega to fund the development of titles like:

 

Black ice/White Noise

 

Dactyl Joust

 

Legions Of The Undead.

 

Possibly the 3 most promising titles in terms of exclusives.

 

I'd also of loved to of seen Skyhammer get a commercial release.

 

Doom was a Killer App for the Jaguar, it proved Atari could get the biggest conversions and not have them comprimised, unlike 32X, Saturn and 3DO Doom..not really fair to moan at SNES Doom, only so much you can do with an extra DSP chip.

 

 

it's an old subject but settling for Fever Pitch as you couldn't get Fifa....bad, bad idea.Better to have nothing in a genre than medicore titles that smack of filler.

 

Having Virgin onboard seemed to be a double edged sword as well..wanting Aladin, but getting Dragon:Bruce Lee Story? yikes.

 

Discovering Creature shock was actually pretty sh*te...

 

 

Demolition Man not all that either.

 

Atari would of been far better off going after the exclusives Virgin were pitching to them, but probably through NO wisdom of their own, they dodged a bullet with Heart Of Darkness.

We could have been in for a treat, for sure. The Virgin games would have been nice, too. Surely, the Jag was horrendously under-marketed and, because of that, I don't think it lived up to its full potential. That is part of it, anyway, and the Jaguar, if used correctly with the then-radically advanced GPU it had, and had the games that have failed been developed to a fuller potential, with better graphics, storyline, and sound, it could have been a force to be reckoned with. Then, Atari might have been a little better off in the world of video gaming, instead of imploding in 1996. Now, over twenty years later, Atari has about a €.36 (or USD$.43) per-share market value, at least the last time I checked. Which is why I am hoping that the Ataribox project helps their sales. I can't predict the future, but I can hope anyway.

 

Sorry for rambling. I just love Atari, even if it is nothing like the early 1980s. I just really hope it can do better, that's all. Thanks.


Edited by BlackCatz40, 13 August 2017 - 10:43 PM.


#18 A31Chris

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:21 AM

I would have LOVED to see the two Phantasy Star games mentioned ported to the Jaguar, because I am a big PS fan. In fact, any and all of these Sega games would have boosted Atari's revenue because it would have increased the Jaguar library, for one. Heck, I would have wanted to see Space Harrier on the Jag. I bet, if done correctly, it would have been a knock-out game. The Jaguar would have had enough power inside it to render and, maybe, enhance the graphics. Sure, it was lacking RAM, but it could have been spectacular, anyway (I think it could have pulled it off), and I would have bought those games. Too bad.

It's been common knowledge for a while that the Jags ram could have been expanded through the cartridge slot relatively easy. I always thought that a memory expander cartridge would have been cool with games that use it fitting inside that cartridge. Much like the game boy color adapter for the SNES.

It can be doubled internally also, though less easily. However the system would have faster access to that ram.

Edited by A31Chris, 14 August 2017 - 01:22 AM.

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#19 BlackCatz40

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:56 PM

It's been common knowledge for a while that the Jags ram could have been expanded through the cartridge slot relatively easy. I always thought that a memory expander cartridge would have been cool with games that use it fitting inside that cartridge. Much like the game boy color adapter for the SNES.

It can be doubled internally also, though less easily. However the system would have faster access to that ram.

That I can agree on. It would have been faster, internally, for sure. The RAM limits were done by Atari to cut corners financially. But, it still would have been a cheap way to increase the RAM. The Jaguar is powerful, but it could have been more so. But, the problem with a memory expansion cartridge is it would be slower through the cartridge port, I think. It would still help somewhat, though, that way. I can agree on that as well. Maybe there is a way to do that and add an optional double-cartridge port adapter to accomodate both cartridge and said expansion unit. They have a cartridge port expansion unit for the 130XE. I have one. Maybe they can do the same thing for the Jag. I am sure.



#20 BlackCatz40

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:59 PM

Heck, I would like to see something like a ROM scanner, like for the A2600, for the Jag. It could be plugged in and multiple carts can plug into it and can be loaded, one at a time, by the press of a button. I have an old ROM scanner for the A2600 that still works. The NES had one for store displays. I saw it one time at a Toys 'R' Us many moons ago. I think something like that can be done for the Jaguar. Difficult, yes, but maybe doable. :)


Edited by BlackCatz40, 14 August 2017 - 03:01 PM.





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