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Billy Mitchell stripped of High Scores, banned from competition; Steve Wiebe named first Donkey Kong player to achieve 1,000,000 points


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#1 Justin

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:34 PM

Just saw this last week and was surprised I haven’t seen it here yet. Billy Mitchell was stripped of his high scores and banned from competition by Twin Galaxies. Steve Wiebe has been named the first Donkey Kong player to achieve 1,000,000 points.

 

Twin Galaxies writes in an statement released on April 12th that Mitchell’s famous ”Donkey Kong” score of 1,047,200 was not achieved on an arcade machine — a requirement for Twin Galaxies and Guinness — but rather through the use of emulation software.

 

Thoughts, everyone?

 

More here:

 

 

rexfeatures_9123686a-e1523538897173.jpg?

 

From Variety:

‘King of Kong’ Star Stripped of High Scores, Banned From Competition

Steve Wiebe awarded title of first Donkey Kong player to reach one million points

http://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/king-of-kong-stripped-of-title-1202751358/



#2 dauber

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:40 PM

I was shocked that he was at Midwest Gaming Classic. Didn't think he'd want to show his face at a major event so soon after this controversy erupted, but nope, he was there. Apparently some folks were yelling things at him (I personally didn't see any of that, but I wouldn't doubt it happened) but he completely brushed that stuff off. He made a statement last Sunday, but...at least from my interpretation of it, it was basically a NON-statement. He didn't seem to say "I'm innocent" or "I'm guilty," but more like, "The truth will be told in time." It was very....useless, quite frankly, and this is coming from a guy who has an overall positive opinion on Billy Mitchell.


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#3 RickR

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:53 PM

It seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it?  The video evidence shows it's not on real hardware.  I'd say that he should go play on a real arcade machine with a video camera present.  If he can get close to the old record, it validates it. 

 

It is my conjecture only that he did play on emulation, but doesn't believe that should impact the game.  I think many people would agree with that.  But rules are rules.  So Billy, go play a round on a real machine and let's see what happens. 



#4 dauber

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:08 PM

It is my conjecture only that he did play on emulation, but doesn't believe that should impact the game.  I think many people would agree with that.  But rules are rules.  So Billy, go play a round on a real machine and let's see what happens. 

 

Well....

 

1) if it's emulation, it should be in the MAME track, not the arcade track, and...

2) The truly big thing about MAME that makes a difference is....save states. Billy is accused of using save states, and I think one glaring thing cited was the number of blue (and ergo higher point value) barrels that he was getting versus how many blue barrels usually appear.


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#5 kamakazi20012

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:40 PM

Well...I can't say anything about this but agree that if he was legit then go live feed and play on real hardware.

So, Billy, get yourself a live feed account either on YouTube, Twitch, or other well-known provider and play the arcade again while others watch. That would be my suggestion.

#6 TrekMD

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:48 PM

It seems he is doing to events.  I wonder if I'll see him at FreePlay Florida this year.  Perhaps by then, "the truth" about it all will be out.


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#7 nosweargamer

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:08 PM

The reminds me a little of when the Patriots were accused of cheating (more than once actually). My thought was, "They're so good, they don't need to cheat, so why cheat?". I lost a lot of respect for the team after that.

 

I'm not claiming Billy cheated using save stats or anything of that nature, but he is so talented, there really is no excuse for any shortcuts. From what I understand, it's pretty clear that he emulated or at least used some sort of modified hardware, but passed it off as the real deal. He, out of all people, should know better.

 

It's been a long time since I saw it, but I recall how King of Kong passed Billy off as a guy who was a "buddy" of Walter Day and Twin Galaxies. They were portrayed like a "Good Ole Boys" group that would stick up for each other before letting a newbie in.  I realize the Billy is a real nice guy in real life according to most, and that the movie made him a villain for storyline purposes, but I can't get the scene out of my head where Steve Wiebe makes a new record in person, only for a VHS tape from Billy to be sent in to retake the crown seemingly without much scrutiny, after they would agonize over the machine Wiebe played on.

 

Could it be that the movie was more accurate than we thought? Could it be that TG would let people within their circle use MAME or modified hardware with a wink and a nod, passing it off as legit?

 

IMHO, Billy Mitchell is a top notch player, who didn't need to do what he did and the fact that he hid this secret for so long, shows a certain lack of integrity.


Edited by nosweargamer, 23 April 2018 - 10:13 PM.

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#8 RickR

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:19 PM

The reminds me a little of when the Patriots were accused of cheating (more than once actually). My thought was, "They're so good, they don't need to cheat, so why cheat?". I lost a lot of respect for the team after that.

 

I'm not claiming Billy cheated using save stats or anything of that nature, but he is so talented, there really is no excuse for any shortcuts. From what I understand, it's pretty clear that he emulated or at least used some sort of modified hardware, but passed it off as the real deal. He, out of all people, should know better.

 

It's been a long time since I saw it, but I recall how King of Kong passed Billy off as a guy who was a "buddy" of Walter Day and Twin Galaxies. They were portrayed like a "Good Ole Boys" group that would stick up for each other before letting a newbie in.  I realize the Billy is a real nice guy in real life according to most, and that the movie made him a villain for storyline purposes, but I can't get the scene out of my head where Steve Wiebe makes a new record in person, only for a VHS tape from Billy to be sent in to retake the crown seemingly without much scrutiny, after they would agonize over the machine Wiebe played on.

 

Could it be that the movie was more accurate than we thought? Could it be that TG would let people within their circle use MAME or modified hardware with a wink and a nod, passing it off as legit?

 

IMHO, Billy Mitchell is a top notch player, who didn't need to do what he did and the fact that he hid this secret for so long, shows a certain lack of integrity.

I completely agree with all of this.  Twin Galaxies comes out of this with a partial stench too. 


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#9 nosweargamer

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:21 PM

By the way, here is the statement that Sean mentioned:

 

What I hear is this:

"I played by the old rules, not the current rules, so my scores are still legit, but I won't give you any more details until later"


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#10 RickR

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:27 PM

I think I'm going to watch "King of Kong" again now that more context has been added after 15 years.  It's interesting how two cheaters have been exposed this year (Billy Mitchell and Todd "Dragster" Rogers). 


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#11 dauber

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:16 AM

I completely agree with all of this.  Twin Galaxies comes out of this with a partial stench too.

 
Well...yeah, but keep in mind that TG has changed hands at least twice since KoK happened. New management as of a couple of years ago.
 
 

I'm not claiming Billy cheated using save stats or anything of that nature, but he is so talented, there really is no excuse for any shortcuts. From what I understand, it's pretty clear that he emulated or at least used some sort of modified hardware, but passed it off as the real deal. He, out of all people, should know better.


What I really don't understand is how the Billy defenders can...defend him, with that mountain of evidence against him. If you ask them to explain the videos and how they pretty much prove it was MAME, if you get a response at all, it will be, "Look...he didn't use MAME. Shut up."

It's been a long time since I saw it, but I recall how King of Kong passed Billy off as a guy who was a "buddy" of Walter Day and Twin Galaxies. They were portrayed like a "Good Ole Boys" group that would stick up for each other before letting a newbie in.  I realize the Billy is a real nice guy in real life according to most, and that the movie made him a villain for storyline purposes, but I can't get the scene out of my head where Steve Wiebe makes a new record in person, only for a VHS tape from Billy to be sent in to retake the crown seemingly without much scrutiny, after they would agonize over the machine Wiebe played on.


From what I understand, there's a *lot* more to that scene than what's presented. It was oversimplified and, of course, edited to make a story. I think its IMDB entry has an explanation of what went down that day, and if that explanation is to be believed, then the scene is extremely misleading.

Could it be that the movie was more accurate than we thought? Could it be that TG would let people within their circle use MAME or modified hardware with a wink and a nod, passing it off as legit?


I seriously doubt it - they probably didn't know. After all, it took this long for it to come into question. But it is pretty darn suspicious that Billy is there on camera saying that the only way a score is credible is if it's done live in front of people. But then turns around and has that video tape submitted.

Having said that, though...for all we know, he could have done that *intentionally* to prove a point. Billy could theoretically come out tomorrow and say, "You know what? Yep, you got me. And now you see what I mean about how it NEEDS to be done live in front of people?"

Seriously, at this point, there's no reason for him to not come clean, assuming he is indeed guilty. He hasn't had a DK world record in quite a long time, and even if it were to completely tarnish his reputation (it won't - he has enough defenders, and there are enough pushovers like myself who will default to "In the grand scheme of things, he's a nice guy"), he's pretty much set for life thanks to Rickey's, so he can sulk/laugh all the way to the bank.

And yeah, for KoK, they had to play up the Billy vs. Steve thing. From what I hear, the two are actually friends, and I believe that. Case in point: Tim McVey, the subject of the movie Man Vs. Snake (a really awesome watch, btw; if you haven't seen it, SEE IT), said in defense of King of Kong: "If you made a documentary that did nothing but tell the truth, you'd end up with a pretty boring movie." And he admitted that Man Vs. Snake also had some manipulations. (And my first thought when Dwayne Richard was introduced was, "Okay, here's the Billy Mitchell villain of this movie," except they were quick to point out that Tim and Dwayne became friends pretty quickly.)
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Supernatural, perhaps...baloney, perhaps not.


#12 nosweargamer

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 03:06 PM

 
And yeah, for KoK, they had to play up the Billy vs. Steve thing. From what I hear, the two are actually friends, 

 

Maybe they were friendly to each other, but I'm not sure you'd call them friends. 

 

BTW, here's a recent quote from Steve:

“The more I thought about it from the ‘King of Kong’ days, it all seemed to make sense now,” Wiebe said. “All the things that were happening at the time… like why he didn’t come out and play me, and why he was inciting whose records were going to be authenticated and who’s were going to be dropped. ‘King of Kong’ referenced that that he was a referee and on the board of directors. When that leaked out, it started to make more sense.”

 

http://variety.com/2...iew-1202752495/

 

Also, because you mentioned IMDB, I looked up King of Kong to see what it said. Found some interesting stuff under Trivia:

While the movie claims that Billy Mitchell held the Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior records since 1982 before Steve Wiebe came along, there were numerous scores higher than Mitchell's validated by Twin Galaxies in the early 1980s that went missing during Mitchell's time as a scoreboard editor. His 1982 Donkey Kong score was also beaten in 2000 by Tim Sczerby, who's name is omitted from the film but seen on a computer screen for a moment when Walter Day is entering Mitchell's taped score.

 

 

To be fair, I have no idea where they got that from and it could be made up, but if it was true...wow.

Does anybody know if Mitchell ever served as scoreboard editor?


Edited by nosweargamer, 24 April 2018 - 03:15 PM.

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#13 kamakazi20012

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:58 AM

If he was wouldn't there be a record of it online somewhere? Like Wikipedia or something? What about those TG cards? If one was made on Billy wouldn't it say what all he did?
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#14 Arenafoot

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 01:56 AM

To be fair, I have no idea where they got that from and it could be made up, but if it was true...wow.

Does anybody know if Mitchell ever served as scoreboard editor?

 go to the 20:33 mark of the King of Kong movie and you'll see he was

 

https://www.youtube....utu.be&t=20m17s

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Edited by Arenafoot, 26 April 2018 - 01:57 AM.

consoles I own: Atari 2600 Vader & Jr. (short rainbow) w/box, GCE Vectrex, Radio Shack CoCo2 (64k) w/box, Intellivision, NES, SNES, N64 (x3), Xbox (Halo Ed.), PS1 (x3), PS2 slim, Wii, Mattel HyperScan (x2) handhelds I own: Microvision w/box, Electronic Football (by Sears) w/box, Tomytronic Pac-Man w/ box, Entex PacMan2, Coleco Donkey Kong tabletop w/box (w/ Coleco "Perma-Power" Adapter), & all MGA Classic Arcade's and Jakk's Pacific/TV Games Plug-n-Play.


#15 Arenafoot

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:25 AM

Also, because you mentioned IMDB, I looked up King of Kong to see what it said. Found some interesting stuff under Trivia:

While the movie claims that Billy Mitchell held the Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior records since 1982 before Steve Wiebe came along, there were numerous scores higher than Mitchell's validated by Twin Galaxies in the early 1980s that went missing during Mitchell's time as a scoreboard editor. His 1982 Donkey Kong score was also beaten in 2000 by Tim Sczerby, who's name is omitted from the film but seen on a computer screen for a moment when Walter Day is entering Mitchell's taped score.

at the 52:17 mark of King of Kong, it shows Tim Sczerby in 3rd place with a 879,200 score on the Twin Galaxies scoreboard website - but the graphic within the movie a few moments later shows a different list........

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  • king of kong donkey kong scores.JPG

consoles I own: Atari 2600 Vader & Jr. (short rainbow) w/box, GCE Vectrex, Radio Shack CoCo2 (64k) w/box, Intellivision, NES, SNES, N64 (x3), Xbox (Halo Ed.), PS1 (x3), PS2 slim, Wii, Mattel HyperScan (x2) handhelds I own: Microvision w/box, Electronic Football (by Sears) w/box, Tomytronic Pac-Man w/ box, Entex PacMan2, Coleco Donkey Kong tabletop w/box (w/ Coleco "Perma-Power" Adapter), & all MGA Classic Arcade's and Jakk's Pacific/TV Games Plug-n-Play.





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