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The Atari Jaguar Game by Game Podcast


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#41 Lost Dragon

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 04:39 PM

I'd also like to express a huge thank you to ALL who submitted feedback on Doom for the podcast, it's amazing to hear what makes or breaks a Doom game for you guys.

 

There seems to be a rough 50-50 split of those who like myself didn't miss the PC (or indeed, any) music running in Jaguar Doom and those who would of much prefered it was present.

 

Whilst i've never seen a definite answer to why it's no featured in game, the most common explanation would appear to be that the way it's coded, simply doesn't leave the DSP enough free cycles to process it, hence it's only on title screen etc.

 

Also huge kudos to The Jag Bar with his comments regarding Doom on the 32X and more so, how after this he felt cheated by Sega and thus never bought a Sega saturn, which is just as well, as he'd of been very dissapointed by Saturn Doom.

 

Though having said that, it did have superior versions of Duke Nukem 3D and Hexen over the Playstation and Quake at a time it was thought impossible to do on PS1, but then PS1 had Quake 2, Life Force Tenka, Shadowmaster etc :)

 

Regarding you not feeling it for PS1 Doom as it made it more creepy, loved hearing that as i was the exact opposite, the headf**k PS1 Music and sound FX were up there with PS1 Silent Hill for setting me on edge, if i'm going through hell, i want my nerves to be on edge :-), but again it highlights just how different an experience Doom is for many people.

 

Very keen to hear your thoughts on Doom 4, i've returned to it and it's becoming a slog, it's suffering Dark Souls II syndrome (for myself) in that Bosses are seemingly thrown in just for the (wait for it..... :) ) HELL of it (sorry, had to go there...as well as Alien Isolation Syndrome..ie game streched out by developer for fear of low marks for making game too short.

 

Oh and MASSIVE patch on PS4, dunno IF PC version is the same?.    



#42 Shinto

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 12:22 PM

Episode 15 for Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story is now available directly, on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, or your favorite RSS podcast app.  Thank you for listening, and for your patience.

 

In the next episode, we'll be platforming in the Nth Dimension with Zool 2.  If you have any feedback for this one, please post here, or send it in (text or audio) to jaguar@gamebygamepodcast.com.


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#43 Lost Dragon

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 01:29 PM

Yet another fantastic eps. Loved in particular your findings to back up fact it seems ported from Genesis, not SNES as many mags claimed...and belived. Fantastic to see someone else going to great lengths to point out what a lot of the press incorrectly claimed. The way you approached the game, having never played it before, going in taking it as more than just a SF II clone etc.

 

:) I think it was Atari UK'S Darryl Still, writing a reply to my letter to Ultimate Future Games, where I'd kicked off big time about so many ports appearing on Jaguar... As these were not why I had purchased a Jag and he said likes of Dragon were far more than just SNES ports as each game ran in 256 colours etc...

 

:)) Ahh, so 'Ropey' is not a phrase much used in USA then?

 

I use it a lot myself and it's very apt for things like Dragon, Brutal Sports Football etc which your covering on Jaguar... Basically these are 16 bit games with minor cosmetic and content changes and which you were paying a lot more for on Jaguar cart than say Commodore A1200 Disk or CD32 Disc..



#44 Shinto

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 06:23 PM

Thank you, Lost Dragon.  Out of curiosity, what did games for the CD32 cost at the time?  This would be a good data point for my next episode.

 

Atari was mostly interested in getting titles on the shelves, as well as filling gaps in the Jaguar lineup (this is more true for sports titles than fighting games, but either way).  I like to think of this in terms of the app store wars.  Apple and Google and Microsoft would announce how many apps they had in their respective app stores, nevermind the quality of or overlap between those thousands of apps, but numbers mattered more.

 

If Atari only allowed games that effectively used their hardware, your Iron Soldiers and Tempest 2000s and DOOMs and Aliens vs. Predator, people (well, the gaming media especially) would have complained loudly about the sheer lack of available games.  Games of such quality are hard and time-consuming to make.  It was more important and valuable to say "We have nine new games coming out for the 1994 Christmas season" to say "we have three really impressive 64-bit-like games coming out for the 1994 Christmas season."  You could say that the core of Bubsy, Checkered Flag, Zool 2, Dragon, Val d'Isere, etc. could be handled just as well on 16-bit systems, but without those "ropey" titles filling the shelves and giving Jaguar owners more options, perhaps the Jaguar would have died a quicker death.

 

However, it's disappointing that Atari thought the higher color depth alone would sway gamers and magazines.  Yeah, there's no way the Super Nintendo could display anywhere near as many colors, that's certainly true, but that's not enough of a differentiation to validate the boastful claims of 64-bit power in the jaded eyes of consumers and media.  Many people wouldn't even notice, many more wouldn't care.

 

To me, personally, a "ropey" game on the Jaguar (I'm starting to like using that word) was worth more than the same game on the SNES.  It might get lost in the noise on the Super Nintendo, but existing on the Jaguar made me pay attention, and money, simply because I was an Atari fan and wanted to bolster my personal library.  I got to enjoy a lot of games that I otherwise would not have even considered.


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#45 Lost Dragon

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 08:25 AM

I've emailed over CD32 reviews of things like Brutal Sports Football etc with RRP prices on them. Did you not get them?

 

Regarding the 16 bit conversions to Jaguar..

 

Double edged sword area really :), yes, it allowed atari to say we have X amount of developers onboard and we expect Y numbers of games avaiable by...certain date and do this with the limited funds Atari had avaiable, but....Atari UK (Darryl Still himself) admitted more often than not they had to obtain subsitute games...

 

Couldn't get E.A on board so NO FIFA on Jaguar?, yet need a footy game and now? quick, convert Fever Pitch Soccer..now that is a ropey alternative...

 

I've personally always seen Imagitec's Dino Dudes as Atari needing something along lines of Lost Vikings on Jaguar...Attack Of The Mutant Penguins an attempt to capture the quirky nature of something like Lemmings, but done on the cheap, either via trusted developer (Imagitec) or via in house teams.

 

Val d'Isere? I've emailed my thoughts on for future Podcast eps.

 

For UK Press, let alone gamers, 64 bit power did not equate to:More colours onscreen than the SNES, higher resolution backdrops etc, let alone 2D games and IF Atari thought that was all that was needed? BIG mistake...

 

We'd already seen improved ports from Amiga to console..Genesis Gods... (Bitmap Bros) game ran faster, 64 colours onscreen etc.

 

@Shinto: Some price Comparisons for you:

 

Amiga Humans: £25.99

 

Lost Vikings on CD32 £29.99

 

CD32 Gunship 2000 ( a 256 colour version, CD soundtracks and rendered intro etc) £29.99 would Jaguar version, had it been completed, been same price?.No...

 

And if we are talking Lost/Claimed to be Lost Jaguar titles:

 

Try Wild Cup Soccer (supposed to be 30% done on Jaguar, though yet to see proof myself)

 

Kixx Bdget version £9.99 on Amiga...

 

And James Pond III (Jaguar version claimed 50% finished) on CD32 £34.99

 

Brutal Sports Football (A500/600) £25.99 then re-released on BUDGET Label KIXX at £9.99

 

Amiga 1200 Soccer Kid: £29.99

 

CD32 Syndicate:£34.99

 

CD32 Theme Park £25.99

 

CD32 Cannon Fodder £29.99 (and Amiga original released on Budget Label, The Hit Squad at £16.99)

 

Striker on CD32 £29.99

 

Zool 2: Try A1200 £25.99 or CD32 £29.99

 

Yes these had the advantages of being on CD/Floppy Disk over cart on Jaguar, but Atari expecting UK Jaguar owners to pay a lot more on top for minor cosmetic enhancements, if that on old Amiga games, espically when things like Cannon Fodder played far better with a mouse.... Yikes.

 

And these are RRP prices quoted by Amiga CD32 Gamer Mag for comparison:

 

Brutal Sports Football:£29.99

 

Zool II £29.99

 

Sensible Soccer Int. £24.99

 

Humans 1+2 £29.99

 

The magazine wasn't exactly a huge fan of the Zool titles...

 

Zool II only pulling in 70% which was better than 1st Zool scored. About 2/3 of the way through your Kasumi Ninja Podcast, superb stuff. What i really love about these is how you capture the feeling of just how out of touch Atari was, with the market and what people expected from a '64bit' console...

 

So, you guys want Mortal Kombat II? well, you'll stop wanting that as soon as you see Kasumi Ninja and if it's GORE your after? we have it by the bucketfull.... It's a shame Kasumi Ninja ended up such a disaster, as you rightfully point out, aspects of it do utisile the Jaguar hardware very well. A very decent early 3D engine for the Dungeon character selection area.... Superb backdrops on certain stages. Great title musdic etc. But these in themselves only highlight how poor the game is in other KEY areas... Awful animation, bizzare special movies, plot, very limited voice samples etc.

 

I mentioned earlier how next selection of titles are 'ropey' 16 bit conversions...Dragon being the 1st and it's true...

 

Looking at Brutal Sports Football..the reason it's opted for a simpler side view, rather than the more demmanding Isometric 3D viewpoint, is that it was origoinally designed for the Sega Genesis (ironic as that version never arrived) yet when converted to far more powerful hardware in terms of CPU, more colours etc (CD32, Jaguar and A1200) it's merely tarted-up and is unable to shake it's Genesis origins.

 

Just forwarded over Beast Ball (AKA Brutal Sports Football) original Genesis screens....

 

Claim Zool was to star in an original platformer designed specifically for Genesis/SNES after original went down and i quote.."as well as a glass of wee" (scores of say 77% on Genesis here in UK), followed by UK Press annoucing Zool 2 for MegaDrive/Genesis..so looks like the Amiga/CD32/Jaguar game started off as a SNES/Genesis game after all.

 

And as for Genesis Dragon being used as basis for Jaguar version, odd choice as game hadn't gone down that well well with UK Press who moaned it's lack of moves compared to things like Eternal Champions, sluggish controls and critical gameplay flaws, such as when stunned, you couldn't shake it off and thus were helpless whilst yer opponent inflicted further damage on you...

 

Just forwarded over (at his request) some UK prices for various games from likes of Silica Shop, Calculus, Daniels and Rumbelows...

 

But considering:
Brutal Sports Football (A500/600) £25.99

 

Try £54 on Jaguar from Silica and £54.99 from Daniels and this for a tarted up unreleased MegaDrive game in all reality...

 

Zool 2: Try A1200 £25.99 or CD32 £29.99

 

Jaguar version? £54 from Silica and again this started out as a Megadrive/SNES title it would appear...

 

Amiga Humans: £25.99

 

Dino Dudes on Jaguar:

 

£44.99 Rumbelows/£39 Silica Shop/£39.99 Calculus....

 

Kinda makes me wish as a UK gamer Atari had made the Jaguar CD based from the bloody start as cart prices? YIKES. As well as finishing off misc research for Unseen64+GTW, been busy sending Shinto over everything i have on likes of: Baldies, Soccer Kid, Total Carnage, Zool 2, Theme Park, Cannon Fodder, Robinsons Req, Pinball Fant., Fever Pitch Soccer, Syndicate, Worms and so forth.

 

Everything and anything i thought he could make use of... Interviews, soundbites, development histories, press reactions to Jaguar and other platforms (so he can gauge if games were straight ports to Jaguar and if so, if Jaguar was alone in this or did other platforms find same issues), teams behind various conversions, press ads..you name it. I know Shinto loves to be as in depth and accurate as possible and research is very, very time consuming, so hopefully it'll be of help.

 

I have seen some bizzare claims over some Jag CD games only a few weeks back, suggesting only 3DO+Jag CD versions of Robinsons Req used 3D texture-mapped polygons to create game world, otheres used a voxel engine to create landscapeor rendered graphics? erm not quite...earlier versions used texture-mapping for grass on the ground, simple polygons or pre-rendered 3D for tress, monsters etc.

 

Mix and match of techniques to keep game speed up...Jag and 3DO hardware just allowed for effects to be expanded on/replaced in key areas.... And whilst it's true Jaguar version hasn't the fog effect 3DO version does, this does mean it suffers from polygon pop-in at times and reviewer felt there wasn't much to put game down on? For many it's still a frustrating, boring game, as 1 UK reviewer described it, it was like being told to paint a fence, only to discover the fence was 15 miles long :) So i feel it's only fair ALL viewpoints are represented.

 

And today, forwarded over lot of material on Flashback, Primal Rage (all versions, hell even PC version only scored 43%), misc Defender 2000/WMCJ etc reviews,bit more sensi Soccer stuff, misc D.D 5 material.

 

Wanted to give Shinto the full low down on other versions of games, ported to jaguar so he can see how they were recieved, what enhancements made to systems like Sega CD, 32X, PC etc..ie if very little on these, Jaguar was hardly going to be treated any better, UK Press coverage of what was expected from Jaguar..you name it, i sent it.



#46 Shinto

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:22 PM

It took longer than I had hoped, and ended up longer than I expected, but the Zool 2 episode has been published.  Check it out directly, on iTunes/Stitcher/Google Play (within a few hours of this post, typically), or your favorite podcast player.  Show notes are on the blog.  Thanks to those who sent in feedback, and thank you all for listening.

 

The next episode will cover what is perhaps the best skiing/snowboarding game on the Jaguar, Val d'Isère Skiing and Snowboarding.  I'd love to hear any feedback you might have on this one.


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#47 Lost Dragon

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:50 PM

Sweet.Been looking forward to this 1, even though i'm not a fan of the Zool series on any platforms.

 

:) As for next month's podcast..erm, are there any other commercial Skiing/Snowboarding games on Jaguar?.

 

It's not a genre i follow, but looks like Val D' wins by being the only 1 of it's kind?.

 

Anywho, you've had my feedback on it, in previous email.

 

Thanks yet again for doing these.



#48 btbfilms76

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 02:01 PM

It took longer than I had hoped, and ended up longer than I expected, but the Zool 2 episode has been published.  Check it out directly, on iTunes/Stitcher/Google Play (within a few hours of this post, typically), or your favorite podcast player.  Show notes are on the blog.  Thanks to those who sent in feedback, and thank you all for listening.

 

The next episode will cover what is perhaps the best skiing/snowboarding game on the Jaguar, Val d'Isère Skiing and Snowboarding.  I'd love to hear any feedback you might have on this one.

 

Great job Shinto!


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#49 Shinto

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:05 PM

Episode 17 for Val d'Isère Skiing and Snowboarding is live, available via RSS, iTunes, and Stitcher.

 

The next episode of the podcast is actually going to cover the homebrew title Rebooteroids.  You might say I'm trying to delay covering the next two games on my list, Brutal Sports Football and Double Dragon V, and you might be right.  Mostly, though, I've got this shiny new transparent cartridge here that I've scarcely played, and that's just sad.  So yeah, Rebooteroids next episode.  I'd love to hear your feedback on this one, and I've penciled in a deadline of March 18th to guarantee inclusion in the show.

 

No need to send in a rating No-Swear Gamer Scale on this one, I won't be assigning a rating either.  Dauber's reasons for excluding ratings from his Atari 7800 Homebrew podcast convinced me to do the same for homebrew games in my show.

 

Thank you for listening!


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#50 btbfilms76

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:00 AM

Episode 17 for Val d'Isère Skiing and Snowboarding is live, available via RSS, iTunes, and Stitcher.

 

The next episode of the podcast is actually going to cover the homebrew title Rebooteroids.  You might say I'm trying to delay covering the next two games on my list, Brutal Sports Football and Double Dragon V, and you might be right.  Mostly, though, I've got this shiny new transparent cartridge here that I've scarcely played, and that's just sad.  So yeah, Rebooteroids next episode.  I'd love to hear your feedback on this one, and I've penciled in a deadline of March 18th to guarantee inclusion in the show.

 

No need to send in a rating No-Swear Gamer Scale on this one, I won't be assigning a rating either.  Dauber's reasons for excluding ratings from his Atari 7800 Homebrew podcast convinced me to do the same for homebrew games in my show.

 

Thank you for listening!

 

I got my copy for Christmas, very cool game indeed. 


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#51 Lost Dragon

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 08:19 AM

Just had a listen. I think you did a fantastic job here, espically given the game itself, really doesn't give you a lot to work with, it really isn't that great.

 

So i wonder how on earth your going to approach Double Dragon 5 :-)

 

Glad you checked out Chill and Cliffhanger (Sega Saturn/MCD) and you see what i mean, visually Cliffhanger was more impressive on weaker hardware (but no fun to play) and Jaguar hardware should of been capable of reproducing something similar to Saturn Chill's enviroments. Not so keen on PS1 Iron Solider III then?

 

The more limited colours of PS1 hardware did at times rear it's head, but i didn't find it so much of an issue, espically given the more detailed enviroments, multiple levels of terrian, dynamic weather effects, better explosions etc on offer over the earlier Jaguar I.S games, but it's horses for courses :)



#52 Shinto

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 10:28 AM

Hi, all, long time no podcast.  I won't get into excuses about the delay, but will instead announce that the latest episode, covering the recent Jaguar homebrew game Rebooteroids, is now available!  Check it out at the direct link, view the show notes, or simply download using your favorite podcast player (any time now, iTunes).  This was a fun episode to put together, and I'm glad I took the detour into homebrew territory.

 

In the next episode, we are back to the regular release chronology with Brutal Sports Football, a game I'm fairly certain I haven't so much as plugged into my Jaguar in the last 20 years.  Will it be like visiting an old friend, or has it been left idle for good reason?  I'm looking forward to finding out, and to hearing your feedback, if you have any you'd like to share.  You may post or PM me here, or e-mail a text or audio submission to jaguar@gamebygamepodcast.com.

 

As always, thank you for listening.


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#53 Lost Dragon

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 01:49 PM

Good to hear these are still coming Shinto.

 

Sadly i'll be passing this one up.

 

As an Ex-Jaguar owner i'm only concerned with the COMMERCIAL games released during it's short lifespan and the planned/started, but sadly never released titles...

 

As regards Homebrew ,stuff like Fallen Angels is about as far as my interest streches.

 

Catch you next month.



#54 Lost Dragon

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 06:09 AM

As for Brutal Sports Football?

 

It's probably going to feel like the canned Genesis version, but running faster/smoother, but still a game far, far more at home on a system like the genesis, Sega CD or Commodore A1200/CD32, than a 64 bit system.

 

We saw the Genesis have games like Pigskin Football, Mutant League Football etc..this was simply a UK developer doing it's own take on such a genre.

 

It only really stands out on Jaguar as Jaguar has so few games to choose from in this genre.



#55 Lost Dragon

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:41 AM

And to prove my point, the Genesis original..never released.

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#56 Shinto

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:55 AM

The Brutal Sports Football episode is out, and to back up that audacious claim I have a link to Libsyn and some show notes, plus you can also check it out on iTunes, your favorite RSS-based podcast player, and probably Stitcher at this point as well.

 

The next episode of the podcast will cover Double Dragon V!  If you have any feedback for this one, I'd love to get it in the episode, so post/PM here, or send a text or audio submission to jaguar@gamebygamepodcast.com by October 20th.

 

Thank you for listening!


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#57 Shinto

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 10:14 PM

The latest installment of the podcast, covering Double Dragon V: The Shadow Falls, is now online.  Here's a direct link, some show notes, and you'll also find it on iTunes and Stitcher.  Even if you don't care for the game, I hope you enjoy the episode.

 

Up next is Pinball Fantasies.  If you have any feedback you'd like to share, please post here, PM me, or send a text or audio submission to jaguar@gamebygamepodcast.com.  Thanks!


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