CrossBow

Apparently the Tink5x Pro with its triple buffer mode corrects for a lot of this on 2600 games. I'm not aware of any 7800 games that exhibit this issue as it is caused by those 2600 games not adhering the proper scanline counts that NTSC signals use. On TVs they were much more tolerant of these slightly out of spec signals, but modern displays and the scalers don't expect these changes and so they either can't process when this happens (Blank screens), or they take a sec or two to adjust to the new sync. I actually don't have these issues on my UAV upgraded consoles because I have them all going through my Extron multi av selector. It converts all of the composite and s-video inputs as a standard VGA output. So in my case, my Extron is cleaning up these out of sync issues. The ONLY game I have that still gives me issues on my setup is Buck Rogers on the 2600. The title screen and level number screens are a wavy scrambled mess, but the actual game itself will play without issue. Should also note that even some CRTs will exhibit issues with composite and s-video upgraded consoles, because again, through RF it was expected to have some odd sync issues within the signal. But the CRTs expect a perfect scanline signal on composite and s-video which, just does not exist on some of these games created back in the day. So, yeah, apparently a Tink5x Pro can handle these issues and my setup seems to work okay. I think there are also some modified ROMs for some of these problem games to correct for these issues that can be found.

Well as everyone else is showing pics, I guess I better add some for what I was talking about or else it didn't happen right? Here is a pic of my 2600 Parker protos for Star Wars:TAG (WIP), and what appears to be release candidate 1 for Gyruss. I've had these dumped and ST:TAG is different from the released games while Gyruss appears to be the exact same as the released game. Still I got these in the early '00s through Yahoo auctions back when that was still a thing. As the labels are really hard to read now after over 40 years here are some zoomed in closeups with flash to make it easier to read the little label stickers on them. Starting with Gryuss... Here is Star Wars:TAG and you can see it says WIP on the sticker indicating it isn't the final version and again, dumping it has shown differences in the game play slightly. Here is a pic of the table top VFD games I mentioned. This isn't all that I own but are the ones that took me the longest to find for a good price. And there here is a pic of the VCS emulator for the Jaguar that Bryan Edwaard wrote while working for Temporary Sanity Designs back in July 1995 along with photocopies of the ROM Release Form and a letter that talks about what might have been and ultimately didn't happen. Oh..and I thought I would toss this in for good measure...

That would be problematic for some games that use that switch for additional functions. Star Master and Space Shuttle for instance. No, them placing the aspect switch where they did, sort mimics where the old channel select switch used to be on the 4 switch units. Also, yes, they are using Stella as has been mentioned, but it was also recently confirmed that they are using Prosystem for the 7800 emulation. That... is a real shame honestly. But apparently they did look at using A7800 however, the Rockchip in use, just isn't powerful enough to handle A7800. So... yeah, they went with Prosystem.

I honestly didn't mean to rain on your parade, but I thought you should know that those games and many of the other Atari vector based games were never released officially for the console and it honestly isn't quite powerful enough to run arcade accurate ports of those games. There are some home brews that are quite similar and many feel that the included Minestorm game that is built in on each Vectrex is just as fun as Asteroids ever was. Heck I think I like Stramash Zone more than Battle zone, but that homebrew is now fetching expensive prices as well these days. Anyone getting into or starting with the Vectrex needs to know that it is very much a system that if you see a homebrew game or device that even remotely interests you that is currently available, you do NOT sit around and think about buying. You pretty much need to buy those items then and there to get them at their best price because they always increase quite a lot in the future in most cases. I should also note, that while it hasn't been mentioned here. The games released by Kristof Tuts are worth owning a Vectrex for. Seriously, his port of Time Pilot called Vector Pilot is one of the best home brew games on any system. And the best part is that his games are not only amazing, but you can still buy them directly from him for far less money than scalpers on the 'bay would have you believe. http://www.kristofsvectrexgames.be/ I will note that his website will trigger most AV browser guards so you might have to add that link to an exclusion list like I had to in order to get it to come up and work.

There is a switch on the back that I believe says 4:3 - 16:9 so ...yes.

Battlezone and Lunar Lander didn't officially get released on the Vectrex. Those versions you've seen are likely the actual arcade roms of those games running in a special emulation mode from a VecFever cartridge or possibly the PiTrex (I think it can do this..). Using the Vectrex screen and some hardware to make it work. Star Wars:TAG is also playable in this way. But getting a VecFever cartridge is going to cost you even more than a working Vectrex these days.

I will not be in attendance this year. The costs for me are honestly out of hand for it. The ITC will be there in spirit through all the consoles folks are enjoying the new games on.

I've got two as well, but the other is not in as good a cosmetic condition as it has at least one broken boss post on the shell and the vector lines are a mess. I suspect one of the ICs it at fault for that since It has been recapped...etc...with no change. So, in my case, my spare is a parts spare. As for fair price I honestly don't know @- Ω - because I didn't technically have to pay for either of the two I own. The parts unit was given to me since it didn't work, and my actual working one was a gift from local collectors and friends to me for the 10th anniversary of my OVGE event I was hosting in the past here locally. I thought working Vectrex only consoles were in the about $300 - $400 range these days with spare controllers easily hitting $100 ? The games will vary like with any console however.

Not exclusively though as Al has confirmed that most 'Brews' are only going to run on original hardware still. Trust me, there will be a LOT more actual 2600s/7800s in use in their booth vs 2600+ consoles.

I have not! I do have the case you sent installed onto the 32k expansion I got from Evie at BackBit but no... just haven't had any time to get it setup. Been quite busy with a large commissioned services project that I'm finishing up as we speak and have a small stack of client requests in the waiting queue as well.

Getting the 5200 box is more difficult than it should be yes as I believe most of them were sold off in the 2600 boxes with a sticker or something over them to state it was the 5200 version inside.

Yeah I'm pretty sure that is a Ben early made VCS portable.

I don't play either of my two Lynx systems as much as I would like. Lack of time honestly. But I do have over 40 games for the system along with my AgaCart I purchased a few years back. I think some of my favorites on the system would be Xenophobe, Paperboy, Rygar, Zarlor Mercenary, and Xybots!

The DC Kiosk I've had since 2004. It originally came out of an EB games (Before they turned in Gamestop), and then was acquired by a small retro game store that was just getting started around 2003 and they setup a booth at my 2004 OVGE event. They had the KIOSK for sale at the event for about $300 I think it was? But there were no takers as again in this timeframe, the DC was just last gen and no one cared about it. They offered it to me for $250 at the end of the event and I did NOT hesitate to purchase. It is mostly all original still although when I got it, the original lock had been removed and two large sections of velcro had been used to remove the front to change games out etc. It also was missing one of the controllers. I remedied all of this shortly after and it has a proper lock/key on it again and replacement controller that I did have to drill holes into to mount to the arm like the originals did. That said, it currently had DC# 3 in it as the original died within a few weeks of owning it and the second one died a few years later. Both due to failed GDRom drives in them. DC #3 has been in there for well over a decade and had more hours on it than the others and at last check, was still working fine. But I will state that if the GDRom should fail in this one, I would most likely put an ODE into it so that way I can have a lot of games at the ready to play. The galga cocktail I've only had for about 8 years I think? It was serviced fully not long after I bought it but I'm sure the monitor is due for a recap at this point. It has been sometime since I powered it on but it was working great last time it was powered on.

Ah.. I see. I wasn't sure if that signal was available outside of the TIA to be found elsewhere or from another pin etc. I wonder if the cost to need ratio just isn't there for a new TIA replacement to be produced or hardware emulated/simulated off a PCB?

Tough one Steve. I don't have a top three but I've quite a few things that I think might qualify? My two Parker Bros protos for the 2600 I got about 20 years ago. My proto cart for the Jag that has the 2600 emulator on it with a few games that Bryan Edwaard created in the 90s. I believe this is a repro Bryan allowed to be made for a contest that I won this in. My Dreamcast KIOSK My Galaga cocktail cabinet My little VFD table top games of Lupin and Tron from Tomy, and my Zaxxon from Coleco. Heck most of them I have I think are pretty cool! My Ti-99 version of Dragon's Lair that I got as part of a deal with @- Ω - here in our forums. It would go on and on dude...

Thank you for the detailed explanation on it all Alex! But again, in this case the failed transistor is located where....? Inside the TIA. So I guess it is awesome to know what is failed in this case, but still stinks because it isn't something that can be fixed. Unless it were possible to just wire in an actual transistor to handle this externally on a small perf board or just wired into the system directly and then shrink wrapped up? Hmm... a bodge to allow a 95% working TIA to still be used for 100% functionality in a console. I'm kinda like the idea of this...

I've seen something similar to this before although not in the way I was seeing with a recent 4 switch console I was servicing. As part of diagnostics I will use Paul Slocum's excellent Test Cart program as it should some primary colors, shows the current state of all switches minus power of course, but also has a basic graphical view of each controller and small block on the bottom that will move left/right when you plug in paddles to test those too. So all in all a nice utility to know that all controller functions are working properly on the console. Well, on this one, player 1, player 2, and player 4 paddle controls would move from left to right and back turning the paddle as you would expect. But player 3 paddle control would just site on the left side, and then after a point when turning the paddle, it would suddenly just be on the right. No movement of any kind. Just one sec on the left, and then next thing you know it is on the right. So it was acting more like a digital control vs analog. It wasn't the paddles since I used the same set to test player 1 and 2 and that was working fine. Going through the service manual will yield some interesting stuff to help isolate this, but unless you have the diagnostic controller plugs and the 2.6 diagnostic rom, you aren't going to be able to see exactly what you need to see. But lets review that.. If you have the diagnostic plugs, plugged into the controller ports and the diagnostic rom up and running with the controller matrix screen up. Then you use an Oscilliscope to probe the paddle lines off the TIA pins 37,38,39, and 40. They represent player 4, 3, 2, and then player 1 on pin 40. Well, what you should see on your scope if you have it set to the right settings, is something like the picture below from the service manual: However, when I probed pin 38 that is for the player 3 paddle line. I was getting a flat line. Well, actually I was showing a flat line of about 1v but the point is...not pulse like you see in those pictures. (And btw...I was seeing that same pulse line on my o'scope for the other paddles). Well honestly there isn't much in the way of electronics from the controller port to the TIA where the paddles are read and handled. In fact, there is really only 1...just 1 component in the middle of the mix from the controller port to TIA. At least on the 4 switch and above units this is the case. That one component is usually a small ceramic disc, or poly capacitor that doesn't usually go bad. So I first checked that the traces from pin 5 of the player 2 controller port to that cap (C220) was good. It was, and then checked from the cap to pin 38 of the TIA. That too pinged out good. So I went ahead and replaced the capacitor just to see if anything changed. Sadly.... no. What did fix it? Well, if you've gotten this far and read my description of the very simple circuit from port to TIA... it should come as no surprise that is was the TIA itself. This is even more sad considering how rare these IC chips are now becoming and there isn't any projects I'm aware of to make new ones or something to replace the TIA. But yeah... if you find the paddle lines aren't working, chances are that it is the TIA chip itself that has failed if the actual traces are good. Apparently this was less of an issue with earlier 2600s as they used buffer ICs to help control this and therefore the TIA was more protected. Just more cost cutting at work as the console lived on...

I know I've gone on and on about this cartridge in the past but it really is quite amazing given all the systems is can support. At this time, all of the 7800 original released titles minus Choplifter will play properly. Choplifter exhibits a timing issue through the cartridge that actually happens with actual carts on actual hardware as well. But here the BBPro seems to make it show up on all consoles vs just a few that have been encountered in the field. Additionally, the adapter and firmware updates have also gotten quite a few more homebrews working as well. Many of Muddyvision's earlier releases work properly now without graphical glitching and with proper Pokey emulation as well. Some of the more exotic stuff using complex combos of RAM + Bankswitching+ Pokey..etc are still not working but perhaps in time those too will be possible.

If you have Spiceware's Parrot bus stuffing demo, that will tell you pretty easily. that demo will NOT work on any 7800 I've seen with the extra timing circuit in place. It is a 2600 demo but runs even on the original older Harmony. So that is one program I use to test for it without taking the console apart.

Can't really tell by SN no. Pretty sure the extra timing circuit started to show up in '87 made units. But it was only for about a year because most of the units I've had that were made in the way late 87 and '88 had the spots to populate the parts for the circuit, but bypassed it with a zero ohm resistor. So it seems to have been something that was only needed temporarily until they sourced other parts to align with each other better on timing to no longer require it is my best guess.

I just took at look at your main board pics, and that one does NOT have the extra timing circuit present. So I do think that Space Rocks is one game that is affected by the extra timing circuit being in place or not. I didn't work on or sell @socrates63 the 7800 he is using, so I don't know what mods or work was done on his 7800. But again, I wonder if it has the extra timing circuit and if it still active in circuit.

I think that is because at least for me... I don't consider the VCS adapter as being practical for playing 2600 games on. And, your is AV upgraded and won't work with the VCS adapter anyway at this point. Or at least, it won't show a picture from the device since that doesn't go through the UAV.

Yeah, in further discussion on this and in looking at a base sample of pics of 7800s I've done over the past 2 years. It seems that roughly 1 in 4 will have that 74x32 chip in them. And I've never noticed any issues with the s-video output that I could tell? So I'm curious if examples can be provided to show me the difference and exactly what value resistance was added and how it was added exactly? Also, we are getting way off topic so this should likely be moved to its own dedicated thread and I can't apologize enough for that!

Yes I have one of the earlier run 7800GDs. But I can only get my Rad2x to work with it the best so far. I've actually just placed an order for another Rad2x that I can use with it dedicated going foward. Although I could try to filter down the sync signal off the encoder of the 7800GD using a resistor and capacitor as I've done on some consoles and run that to provide a new c-sync to see if that works better. I did try kill the trace between the sync and composite pin outputs on the cartridge and soldered a 75ohm resistor between them. I can get stable video, but the audio keeps dropping out so it still isn't quite good. Cleggy also sent me a PM about your s-video output being too bright on your NTSC console? I've not encountered that myself so I'm not sure if it is something I will look for or not going forward.