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CrossBow

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  1. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in Any ATARI JR. owners?   
    Not me...LOL. I've got at least a half dozen different 2600 systems scattered around the house...yes scattered in that I know I have a vader and h6 in one room, a 4 switch in unknown condition in a close in that same room with some games. A Sears h6 that works in the telegames branded storage case in one part of the game room that is never used, another 2600 4 switch that is CIB and worked when I last checked it, plus the Jr I've got up in the lab, and pretty sure there is another Atari h6 in a bin by itself in the close in the game room also. That is just what I remember off the top of my head. 
    I'm almost as bad in the Intellivision side of things. I've got fully working Tandyvision, Sylvania GTE model, Intellivision II, and not one, but two Sears Super Arcades. I've got another Sears unit that works but needs controllers and lots of TLC cleanup that is in the parts section along with an original 2609 that is strictly a parts unit.
    I've also got at least 4 5200 consoles... all 4 port units and working.
    I've got a spare or two of each console I play and collect for with the exception of my SMS, TurboDUO and Jag. Although I do have a Core Grafx II and US TG-16 consoles I can play games on.
    I do need to downsize when I think about it.
  2. Thanks
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    The main concern with replacing the switches is more about using too much heat or leaving the iron on the legs for too long as it could start to melt the plastic inside the switches internally. As for the solder, you only need enough to make a nice little volcano like look on the bottom and although there are 4 pins on each switch. They are a pair that are attached so as long as one of the pins is attached to the trace needed for the switch signal to go through, you are good.
     
  3. Thanks
    CrossBow got a reaction from Justin in Can help fix my Atari 7800   
    @Shauncan you provide some more information? What is the issue or issues you are having? Is it NTSC or PAL...etc?
     
  4. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from MaximumRD in Any ATARI JR. owners?   
    I've got a junior model that someone gave me years ago. It is up in the lab area and works as far as I remember but I have no love for the Jr model personally. At the time it was released, I had my 7800 and felt overall it was a better looking design over the new 2600 look. And... I guess to me the 2600 will always be that larger system with the big switches and woodgrain. When I think Atari 2600, that is what I have in my mind instantly is the 4 switch woody that I grew up with in the early 80s. I had a friend of mine that bought that 'Under 50 bucks' Jr model and newer released games and sure we had fun on it still. But again, It just isn't iconic to me in the way the other models are.
    Now....as in back then... I just use my 7800 for all of my 2600/7800 gaming needs.
     
  5. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from Sabertooth in Any ATARI JR. owners?   
    I've got a junior model that someone gave me years ago. It is up in the lab area and works as far as I remember but I have no love for the Jr model personally. At the time it was released, I had my 7800 and felt overall it was a better looking design over the new 2600 look. And... I guess to me the 2600 will always be that larger system with the big switches and woodgrain. When I think Atari 2600, that is what I have in my mind instantly is the 4 switch woody that I grew up with in the early 80s. I had a friend of mine that bought that 'Under 50 bucks' Jr model and newer released games and sure we had fun on it still. But again, It just isn't iconic to me in the way the other models are.
    Now....as in back then... I just use my 7800 for all of my 2600/7800 gaming needs.
     
  6. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from RickR in Any ATARI JR. owners?   
    I've got a junior model that someone gave me years ago. It is up in the lab area and works as far as I remember but I have no love for the Jr model personally. At the time it was released, I had my 7800 and felt overall it was a better looking design over the new 2600 look. And... I guess to me the 2600 will always be that larger system with the big switches and woodgrain. When I think Atari 2600, that is what I have in my mind instantly is the 4 switch woody that I grew up with in the early 80s. I had a friend of mine that bought that 'Under 50 bucks' Jr model and newer released games and sure we had fun on it still. But again, It just isn't iconic to me in the way the other models are.
    Now....as in back then... I just use my 7800 for all of my 2600/7800 gaming needs.
     
  7. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from RickR in Portal with RTX Released for Free   
    So I did download this and give it a spin the other night. I had to first update my vid drivers in order to get it to work and I didn't care for that much. See, the last game that nVidia worked with to show off some RTX goodness like this was Quake II RTX. Problem is about a year or so later, the newest drivers started to break that game from working anymore on my 2070 Super. I had to downgrade the drivers to get it working stable again. So yeah, not wild about having to update them to test this. I've not tested Quake II to see if it still works or not but I will.
    So... my thoughts on Portal RTX thus far? Mixed honestly...
    I can see where they were going with this but unlike the Quake II RTX it feels more like a mod add-on than a complete redo of the game graphically. Some elements are nice, but I really don't see that huge a change on this game in RTX vs normal game as much as the change was with Quake II RTX.
    On my 2070 super I used the recommended settings and changes by using the Alt-X combo to bring up the additional graphical options and setting them to what they recommended.
    One thing I will say about DLSS is that at least for me on my 2070, it does make a difference, but the different modes do NOT look that different to my eyes and that really surprises me as well. Then again, I've had a feeling that the 2070 series have some flaws in their designs that might prevent the RTX from working as well as it should and has been demonstrated. I would like to see some screen caps from your setup to see it looks and what settings you are using and then compare with mine to give some examples.
     
  8. Thanks
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    The switches are a good beginner project because it is all through hole and you don't have to worry about aligning them up in any particular way because they will only fit in place really in one way. You don't even have to remove the RF shielding to replace them out although it would be a little squeeze to work around them.
     
  9. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from RickR in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    Oh for sure this is something I've had to do quite often. I always test out the panel switches when working on 7800s. If they test out fine during testing, I usually leave them be. But if even one of them is flaky I will suggest to the owners to go ahead and swap them all out. It isn't that big a deal or expense to do so and it is one less issue to likely have to worry about in the future.
    The switches on this one were working quite well and I hadn't planned to replace them out originally. But the rest of the board ha obvious signs of flux splash all over as even some of the main ICs had spots of old flux dried up on them. I cleaned all of that off and didn't think much of it. Wasn't until the power LED was requested to be swapped out for a different color that I saw what my initial cleaning had missed and couldn't get to and decided to look under the power switch to get an idea. Again, I'm glad I did as it really would have only been a matter of time.
    The CPU had to be swapped out on that 7800 also and that was actually quite clean under it on the board so my guess is that whatever happened, most of it seem to collect near the front edge of the board.
     
  10. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    Oh for sure this is something I've had to do quite often. I always test out the panel switches when working on 7800s. If they test out fine during testing, I usually leave them be. But if even one of them is flaky I will suggest to the owners to go ahead and swap them all out. It isn't that big a deal or expense to do so and it is one less issue to likely have to worry about in the future.
    The switches on this one were working quite well and I hadn't planned to replace them out originally. But the rest of the board ha obvious signs of flux splash all over as even some of the main ICs had spots of old flux dried up on them. I cleaned all of that off and didn't think much of it. Wasn't until the power LED was requested to be swapped out for a different color that I saw what my initial cleaning had missed and couldn't get to and decided to look under the power switch to get an idea. Again, I'm glad I did as it really would have only been a matter of time.
    The CPU had to be swapped out on that 7800 also and that was actually quite clean under it on the board so my guess is that whatever happened, most of it seem to collect near the front edge of the board.
     
  11. Thanks
    CrossBow got a reaction from Justin in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    In the case of this one, it was a lot of q-tips an 99.9% IPA. What you don't see and I didn't mention is that the entire board on this 7800 was coated pretty badly with old flux. There were spots of splash from flux in the past. So prior to removing the switches, I actually sprayed the board down liberally with flux remover. But then again I was curious to see the switches because I notice the massive flux buildup under the power LED and I'm glad I did.
    I might have missed it or not checked if the owner hadn't requested a different color power LED. But given how much flux was on the board overall prior to my cleaning it, I should have known to check anyway.
     
  12. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    This is a topic I would usually reserve as a blog post. But it is pretty important one that effects many many 7800 consoles over their lifetime. So lets talk about it...
    The main issue that comes up with the 7800 panel buttons is that over time, they start to fail in that they won't always register a press. The power button and reset seem to be the most problematic and that is likely due to them being used the most. So that is the problem but what is the cause?
    Well here is the cause...


    The above pictures are the remains and effects of left over flux from the factory when the consoles were manufactured. This one happens to be one of the worst I've seen, but it is crazy common how much I've seen similar. The extra flux is hiding under the switches and over time it can cause corrosion and gunk to build up around the switches and the vias they are attached to. This looks pretty nasty and the switches don't fair any better...

    These are the original switches that were removed from the 7800. I did NOT add any additional flux when I removed them. The gunk and wet sheen you seen is the left over flux that has been left for nearly 40 years under those switches. This old flux finds its way into the switches internally and causes them to corrode. As a result, the switches start to loose their contact ability inside them due to this corrosion. 
    I've heard of folks taking the switches apart to clean them and then use some super glue to put them back together. But honestly for the time that takes, and as cheap as the switches cost. I don't mess with that, an instead I replace them out whenever I find this. Now to be fair these switches were actually still working properly. But due to other massive amounts of flux that was left over on other parts of the main board, I decided to remove a few to look them over for inspection and once I saw this, I didn't want to take any chances in the future and decided to clean up the mess on the boards and install new higher quality switches. 

    You can get OEM style replacements from Console5.com inexpensively here and they would likely serve you well for many years to come:
    https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html
    The switches I tend to order and use cost 2x more each, but they are a much better quality switch that is rated for 1million cycles of use. That means, the switches you see above are likely to outlive us all. The switches I order I get are made by Alps and use silver contacts internally vs the brass or alum that is likely used in cheaper switches. Because I've found the Alps switches cloned with much crappier versions that look just like them, I only order them from Mouser to be sure I'm getting legit swtiches.
    https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/SKHCBFA010?qs=4aVxpR%2FL9VKjnfNtzVhXNg%3D%3D
    So if you find your 7800 panel buttons not working as good as they should. Just replace them out or find someone you trust that is good with a soldering iron to do it for you.
     
  13. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    In the case of this one, it was a lot of q-tips an 99.9% IPA. What you don't see and I didn't mention is that the entire board on this 7800 was coated pretty badly with old flux. There were spots of splash from flux in the past. So prior to removing the switches, I actually sprayed the board down liberally with flux remover. But then again I was curious to see the switches because I notice the massive flux buildup under the power LED and I'm glad I did.
    I might have missed it or not checked if the owner hadn't requested a different color power LED. But given how much flux was on the board overall prior to my cleaning it, I should have known to check anyway.
     
  14. Thanks
    CrossBow got a reaction from RickR in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    In the case of this one, it was a lot of q-tips an 99.9% IPA. What you don't see and I didn't mention is that the entire board on this 7800 was coated pretty badly with old flux. There were spots of splash from flux in the past. So prior to removing the switches, I actually sprayed the board down liberally with flux remover. But then again I was curious to see the switches because I notice the massive flux buildup under the power LED and I'm glad I did.
    I might have missed it or not checked if the owner hadn't requested a different color power LED. But given how much flux was on the board overall prior to my cleaning it, I should have known to check anyway.
     
  15. Thanks
    CrossBow got a reaction from RickR in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    This is a topic I would usually reserve as a blog post. But it is pretty important one that effects many many 7800 consoles over their lifetime. So lets talk about it...
    The main issue that comes up with the 7800 panel buttons is that over time, they start to fail in that they won't always register a press. The power button and reset seem to be the most problematic and that is likely due to them being used the most. So that is the problem but what is the cause?
    Well here is the cause...


    The above pictures are the remains and effects of left over flux from the factory when the consoles were manufactured. This one happens to be one of the worst I've seen, but it is crazy common how much I've seen similar. The extra flux is hiding under the switches and over time it can cause corrosion and gunk to build up around the switches and the vias they are attached to. This looks pretty nasty and the switches don't fair any better...

    These are the original switches that were removed from the 7800. I did NOT add any additional flux when I removed them. The gunk and wet sheen you seen is the left over flux that has been left for nearly 40 years under those switches. This old flux finds its way into the switches internally and causes them to corrode. As a result, the switches start to loose their contact ability inside them due to this corrosion. 
    I've heard of folks taking the switches apart to clean them and then use some super glue to put them back together. But honestly for the time that takes, and as cheap as the switches cost. I don't mess with that, an instead I replace them out whenever I find this. Now to be fair these switches were actually still working properly. But due to other massive amounts of flux that was left over on other parts of the main board, I decided to remove a few to look them over for inspection and once I saw this, I didn't want to take any chances in the future and decided to clean up the mess on the boards and install new higher quality switches. 

    You can get OEM style replacements from Console5.com inexpensively here and they would likely serve you well for many years to come:
    https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html
    The switches I tend to order and use cost 2x more each, but they are a much better quality switch that is rated for 1million cycles of use. That means, the switches you see above are likely to outlive us all. The switches I order I get are made by Alps and use silver contacts internally vs the brass or alum that is likely used in cheaper switches. Because I've found the Alps switches cloned with much crappier versions that look just like them, I only order them from Mouser to be sure I'm getting legit swtiches.
    https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/SKHCBFA010?qs=4aVxpR%2FL9VKjnfNtzVhXNg%3D%3D
    So if you find your 7800 panel buttons not working as good as they should. Just replace them out or find someone you trust that is good with a soldering iron to do it for you.
     
  16. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in Was Star Raiders a Good Game?   
    I'm not a fan of the 2600 version of the game at all. Like @AtariSphinx stated, Star Master is a better game in this regard. The touchpad was a cool idea to include, but the actual game play was far too choppy overall to be enjoyed. And yes, it was actually the 5200 version of the game along with Fractalus that made me seek out and get a 5200. Star Raiders on the 5200 is even better than the 8-bit as it takes advantage of the analog controls of the 5200 while having the keypad also right at your easy reach for the functions. 
  17. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in Was Star Raiders a Good Game?   
    That is what has been reported in the past. But so far every 7800 I've attempted to use my SC with has worked just fine. The main issue is that the dust pegs on the SC are not spring loaded and they extend quite a bit forward. As a result, the SC is not able to be seated in all the way into the cartridge port of the 7800. Even if you have one that has been modified to allow for 3rd party carts to fit, it still won't without further modification.
    The issue is that the section on the cartridge port on the ends where 7800 carts fit? You know the extra cart slot section? Well, just off from those is where the dust pegs enter for 2600 carts to fit. But, at the very bottom of those openings is additional molding on the cartridge sleeve where screws are used to hold the sleeve down onto the main board and against the actual cartridge slot. If you remove those sections of plastic, then the SC can seat down all the way to make proper contact and work. Same with Tigervision carts that are similar. However, doing this means that the only way the cartridge sleeve can stay in place, is with the small plastic snap tabs that also lock it down. If those should break, then the cartridge sleeve would have too much slop and move around making it kinda of a challenge to insert games sometimes.
    Curt Vendel was supposed to be working on a solution for that but I never got to see the designs he came up with to try and counter again this. The most obvious solution would have been to extend the plastic molding downwards through the main board openings and then use a small piece of plastic that you would then attach the screws into. This way it would be attached below the PCB and not through it and topside of the PCB as it does currently.
     
  18. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from DegasElite in Was Star Raiders a Good Game?   
    Correct, the same fix for the Activision carts work for the SC games as well. Disabling the extra timing circuit by clipping (or better desoldering) one of the legs from C64 on the right hand, middle portion of the main board. 
    In fact SC games not working or not, can be replicated using the UNO or Harmony since it is the extra timing circuit that makes those games incompatible with the SC. I did a video showcasing all of this sometime back.
     
  19. Thanks
    CrossBow got a reaction from Justin in 7800 front panel switches and why they fail   
    This is a topic I would usually reserve as a blog post. But it is pretty important one that effects many many 7800 consoles over their lifetime. So lets talk about it...
    The main issue that comes up with the 7800 panel buttons is that over time, they start to fail in that they won't always register a press. The power button and reset seem to be the most problematic and that is likely due to them being used the most. So that is the problem but what is the cause?
    Well here is the cause...


    The above pictures are the remains and effects of left over flux from the factory when the consoles were manufactured. This one happens to be one of the worst I've seen, but it is crazy common how much I've seen similar. The extra flux is hiding under the switches and over time it can cause corrosion and gunk to build up around the switches and the vias they are attached to. This looks pretty nasty and the switches don't fair any better...

    These are the original switches that were removed from the 7800. I did NOT add any additional flux when I removed them. The gunk and wet sheen you seen is the left over flux that has been left for nearly 40 years under those switches. This old flux finds its way into the switches internally and causes them to corrode. As a result, the switches start to loose their contact ability inside them due to this corrosion. 
    I've heard of folks taking the switches apart to clean them and then use some super glue to put them back together. But honestly for the time that takes, and as cheap as the switches cost. I don't mess with that, an instead I replace them out whenever I find this. Now to be fair these switches were actually still working properly. But due to other massive amounts of flux that was left over on other parts of the main board, I decided to remove a few to look them over for inspection and once I saw this, I didn't want to take any chances in the future and decided to clean up the mess on the boards and install new higher quality switches. 

    You can get OEM style replacements from Console5.com inexpensively here and they would likely serve you well for many years to come:
    https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html
    The switches I tend to order and use cost 2x more each, but they are a much better quality switch that is rated for 1million cycles of use. That means, the switches you see above are likely to outlive us all. The switches I order I get are made by Alps and use silver contacts internally vs the brass or alum that is likely used in cheaper switches. Because I've found the Alps switches cloned with much crappier versions that look just like them, I only order them from Mouser to be sure I'm getting legit swtiches.
    https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/SKHCBFA010?qs=4aVxpR%2FL9VKjnfNtzVhXNg%3D%3D
    So if you find your 7800 panel buttons not working as good as they should. Just replace them out or find someone you trust that is good with a soldering iron to do it for you.
     
  20. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from socrates63 in Recent Pickups -- (Non Gaming)   
    I wanted the more traditional looking version of this, but at the time I ordered this one, they didn't have the original grey and chrome original looking ones available, and I had NO idea that they would even re-release the original looking version as they did for their Black Friday sale...sigh.
    But, that said, the color scheme might grow on me and it really does sound amazing! It is replacing the Bose Sondlink Mini II that I'd been using for the past few years on my desk at work.

  21. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from Jinroh in Recent Pickups -- (Non Gaming)   
    I wanted the more traditional looking version of this, but at the time I ordered this one, they didn't have the original grey and chrome original looking ones available, and I had NO idea that they would even re-release the original looking version as they did for their Black Friday sale...sigh.
    But, that said, the color scheme might grow on me and it really does sound amazing! It is replacing the Bose Sondlink Mini II that I'd been using for the past few years on my desk at work.

  22. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from Jinroh in VBXE - Is this upgrade for you?   
    I don't have any issue with that. That is how I was approached to start testing games on the 7800 was via PM from the authors there and all discussions, bug reports..etc all happen within PMs for the most part dedicated to the game or program being tested at that time.
  23. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from Jinroh in VBXE - Is this upgrade for you?   
    Well, I did find out that the palette issues with it on NTSC consoles is a well known issue and has been for years. But apparently due to the fact that most of the demoscene stuff and quite a lot of the more recent homebrews all require the use of PAL 8-bits, it was never considered a priority to create a core for the VBXE with NTSC palettes on it. Apparently if you have one of the U1MB upgrade boards in place, they did include an option on it to apparently program a new palette file to compensate but I hadn't really planned on getting one of those for as little as I play on my 130xe.
    As for testing of games, I've done quite a few lately mainly on the 7800 side of things. But that is largely in part because I have a Dragon Fly cartridge and it supports a crazy amount of different bank schemes for different games along with the added hardware in it to play covox, dual pokey, and FM music. I don't know what testing would be possible on my 130xe as I'm limited to just my FujiNet cart that I mainly use and I have an UnoCart for the 8-bit that is much faster at loading games, but also more limited in what it supports.
    I can understand the hesitation with letting folks test your games and programs. I don't know how feasible it is, but I would think it a good idea to put an ID code of some sort embedded within the coding so that if it were to be leaked out in the open, it would at least be possible to know who provided that initial leak or obviously was careless in who might have had access to their stuff and let it get slipped. 
  24. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from TrekMD in Recent Pickups -- (Non Gaming)   
    I wanted the more traditional looking version of this, but at the time I ordered this one, they didn't have the original grey and chrome original looking ones available, and I had NO idea that they would even re-release the original looking version as they did for their Black Friday sale...sigh.
    But, that said, the color scheme might grow on me and it really does sound amazing! It is replacing the Bose Sondlink Mini II that I'd been using for the past few years on my desk at work.

  25. Like
    CrossBow got a reaction from RickR in Recent Pickups -- (Non Gaming)   
    I wanted the more traditional looking version of this, but at the time I ordered this one, they didn't have the original grey and chrome original looking ones available, and I had NO idea that they would even re-release the original looking version as they did for their Black Friday sale...sigh.
    But, that said, the color scheme might grow on me and it really does sound amazing! It is replacing the Bose Sondlink Mini II that I'd been using for the past few years on my desk at work.

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