Unreleased Atari Super XE Game System

[Justin]

Another Atari console on the horizon for 1989. Just what everybody was asking for:

 

 

Just so we're clear for 1989:

• Atari 2600
• Atari 7800
• Atari Lynx
• Atari XEGS
• Atari XE Computers
• Atari ST Computers
• Atari Portfolio
• and now the Atari Mirai / Super XE

All taking space on store shelves at the same time. Atari should’ve focused their efforts on ONE game console to kill the NES. In my opinion Atari Corp. should have refined the Atari 7800 slightly with an improved "Atari 7800 Mk.II" before re-releasing the game system in 1986. Add more memory and a POKEY or Yamaha sound chip on board, and bundle in two of the 7800 D-Pad Controllers that were released in Europe. The Atari 7800 Keyboard should have been released with an ANTIC Chip, SIO and cartridge slots that would add reverse compatibility to the 7800 for the Atari 8-Bit Computers and Atari 5200. Release awesome games, advertise effectively, treat people right and pay vendors, problem solved.

[RickR]

After 1982 or so, Atari was a company that made terrible design decisions.  There should have never been a 5200 as it was released.  At that point, it was using 5 year old technology in a gigantic package with bad controllers.  Would the XEGS been a better system in it's place?  My gut says yes.  Even though the hardware was identical, it had better controllers and more games immediately available.  Still, they should have come up with something new.  Like the 7800. 

The 7800 could have been awesome, but even it had issues.  Those controllers, for example.  The lack of an improved sound chip also. 

As you imply, the company was doomed with the cheapo Tramiels in charge.  Such a shame. 

[Sabertooth]

In terms of the home market, I think that the Atari of 1989 should have stuck with the 7800; enhancing games through the carts and releasing the game pad that was available in Europe to U.S. customers.  Splitting their marketing and development dollars between the 2600 Jr., 7800 and XEGS made little sense. Outside of sound, the 7800 was superior to the A8 and held it's own compared to the NES and SMS. 

In 1989, the A8 tech was more than a decade old.  It was not something that should have been invested in. In terms of the XEGS - while that would have been great in 1982 - by the time they released it and the budget XE line - it wasn't compelling.  And I say this as a kid who got one at 10 years old and has a lot of love for the system. Had Atari Corps been savvy, they might have consolized the ST and beat Sega and Nintendo to 16-bit; complete with a library of incredible games. That's something I could get behind. 

[Scott Stilphen]

Atari made a pile of bad decisions once Warner took over.  In regards to the home market, after the 8-bit computers were released in 1979, Atari didn't release any new hardware under Warner, which is truly shameful considering all the time and money that was spend on developing new hardware internally.  On top of it, they turned to GCC to design their next game console.  Quite simply, under Ray Kassar, Atari was brain dead.

[TrekMD]

I have that video saved to watch.  I'm quite curious.

[Atari 5200 Guy]

15 hours ago, RickR said:

After 1982 or so, Atari was a company that made terrible design decisions.  There should have never been a 5200 as it was released.  At that point, it was using 5 year old technology in a gigantic package with bad controllers.  Would the XEGS been a better system in it's place?  My gut says yes.  Even though the hardware was identical, it had better controllers and more games immediately available.  Still, they should have come up with something new.  Like the 7800. 

The 7800 could have been awesome, but even it had issues.  Those controllers, for example.  The lack of an improved sound chip also. 

As you imply, the company was doomed with the cheapo Tramiels in charge.  Such a shame. 

To it's defense, the 7800 does not get the credit it very well deserves.  Any game console that can handle 100 sprites without breaking a sweat is amazing on its own.  Have you every played Ballblazer on the 7800?  By adding POKEY to the game cartridge the sounds got boosted from 2 channels to 6 channels.  GCC was working on a 7800 specific sound processor but the sale of Atari from Warner to Jack caused that project to be cancelled.  Nevertheless, don't underestimate that little 7800.  It's capable of a lot more magic than anyone has yet to see.  It's only limitations are the amount of experience one has programming it, how much more they are willing to learn, and how much time and patients they are willing to spend on it. 

Out of all of the consoles Atari released the 7800 is by far the only one with the largest amount of flexibility.  Not even the mighty NES can do half the things the 7800 can.  The only reason the NES became such a success was because of the games it received.  That and Nintendo's exclusive contract that block other consoles from getting similar games.  If done right the 7800 can blow the NES out of the water.  Jaguar could have been a huge success as well but it's 2 MB of total system memory bottlenecked the system.  2 MB is not much when you are working with JPEG and PNG images combined with music using sound samples.  2 MB goes quick with game resources alone.  For an example consider Wolfenstein 3D and DOOM.  On PC those games took at least 2 MB just to install (DOOM took 4 MB).  You had to have at least a PC with 2 MB of RAM just to play them.  Jag's Wolf 3D was tailored just for the Jaguar while the Jag port of DOOM was the exact PC port.  Music was missing because the extra system RAM needed was missing in the Jaguar.  If they would have doubled up on Jaguar's RAM it would have been capable of a LOT more.  As it stands, and I stand behind what I say, the 7800 is the only Atari console without the limitations of other game consoles.

As for the XEGS...it should have came between the 2600 and the 7800 as much as I hate to go against the 5200.  I never had issues with my 5200 when I was growing up with it only because it got played everyday which kept it from having a chance to fail.  But for the XEGS to have been a larger success it would have had to offer a different controller option besides the standard 2600 joysticks/controllers.  It would also have needed games that stepped away from the usual games that console and computer gamers might have already played.  All of Atari's consoles up to the 16-bit era lacked games people want to play.  Only the 2600 got the games that were really different while being fun.  Lynx did OK...Jaguar had a few but nothing on the scale it should have.  

 

[TrekMD]

The 7800 gets underestimated because of the sound.  The console was originally designed for expansion of its capabilities.  It is unfortruante that the Tramiels didn't see the console as such and delayed the launch and never pursued any of the expansion capabilities of the system.  

[Atari 5200 Guy]

After watching the video, a Super XEGS had some impressive specs.  I'm not entirely sure that it would have made much of a difference considering how poorly Jack supported his hardware.  I don't think he quite understood that hardware doesn't sell itself, it's all about the software.  It's always been about the software.  Space Invaders sold the 2600 when it came out.  Pac-Man sold the 2600.  Super Mario sold the NES.  Sonic sold the Genesis and Dreamcast.  Halo sold the XBOX.  The proof is there that solid software sells hardware.

It would have been interesting to see this Super XEGS in action but it might have been unnoticed in the crowded consoles already on the market and fixing to come out.  But it almost looks like it had a 32-bit system bus.

[Atari Creep]

As impressive as this machine would have been, Atari had way too much out in the market already. Too bad, looks like an amazing console. 

[peteym5]

It would had been possible to combine the Atari 8 bit chips onto a single chip, they were attempting it already when Tramiel took over and canceled the project. Think it was CGIA, they probably could had put Maria in there with a register to switch between them. 

I agree they should had done a 7800 mark 2, include Pokey and fill the first 16k with RAM minus the locations used for chip register areas. 

[Clint Thompson]

I've been down the 8-Bit XE/XEGS rabbit hole lately. Not sure why really but it landed me here (it's been a while!)

Sadly the video is gone so I'm missing a bit of context as to what this is all really about but seeing that the Atari Mirai casing is most like the SuperXE Game Console is fascinating to me. Personally...and quite honestly, I've always found the pastel colored buttons to be hideous. Outside of that, I owned an XEGS once when I was a teenager. Had a dream about this game machine and tons of carts at a thrift store, went a few days later and sure enough there was this most bizarre XE game console with about a dozen carts for all of $20. Of course I bought it.

Not sure why I got rid of it but looking back now after researching it all again, some newly discovered (non-closed minded) things about it are starting to stand out.

1. You have to truly appreciate that Atari got the composite video output right on this one! I still can't believe it wasn't offered out of the box on the Jaguar in 1993 but was included on a repackaged Atari XE system in 1987.

2. 99% of most 8bit Atari computer games at the time didn't need a keyboard. This was a nice consolized version of a great computer. One that I couldn't love though because the pastel Easter egg color buttons just screamed wonk to me. However.... I've got a solution for that now... and now I want an XEGS again.

3. Something seems amiss. It's 1986.... Atari releases the 7800 in the U.S. and includes the Pro-Line joysticks. They would later release the XEGS and Euro or PAL version of the 7800 in 1987. The same year they included the supposedly coined CX78 joypads for the inclusion with the 7800. Sure, many claim it was in response to the NES but.... why only the PAL version and not in the U.S.?

Which brings me to another very seemingly non-coincidental design choice.... that the XEGS was supposed to include or use the XE joypads. From a design standpoint, it makes 100% sense:

So here you have the triangled XE system in the left corner... and XE text on the top right. I was thinking, wait a minute. That looks STRIKINGLY SIMILAR to something else....

Well... well... well... what else has a sharp triangle cut corner and big bold buttons? The CX78 *ahem* Atari XEGS Joypad:

Even the backside of the CX78 joypad shares the top lines of the XEGS....

So are those red buttons supposed to be pastel and ugly colored too or is red the way to go? Either way, I now feel like that the XEGS joypads were ditched in favor of being released with the 7800 in a too little, too late attempt. Though why not include it with the XEGS in the first place if that actually were the case? The CX78 joypads certainly flows more with the design aesthetics of the XEGS than the 7800, just as the Jaguar joypads flowed more with the lines of the unreleased Panther than it does with the Jaguar (since they actually were Panther joypads repurposed for the Jaguar after all). We have data design disks that confirm that, stating Panther controller drawings and sure enough, it's the Jaguar joypad.

Does anyone have the Atari 7800 action set poster or a picture of it handy? I did a quick google search but came up empty handed.

Tell me the CX78 isn't a repurposed XEGS joypad. Change my mind.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Clint Thompson

[RickR]

I have an XEGS around here somewhere that had been spray painted black.  I'll have to find it and post a pic.  It looks pretty cool that way.

And I think you are on to something with that gamepad connection.  Unmistakable resemblance. 

[Justin]

It's good to have you back @Clint Thompson 

[Justin]

17 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

3. Something seems amiss. It's 1986.... Atari releases the 7800 in the U.S. and includes the Pro-Line joysticks. They would later release the XEGS and Euro or PAL version of the 7800 in 1987. The same year they included the supposedly coined CX78 joypads for the inclusion with the 7800. Sure, many claim it was in response to the NES but.... why only the PAL version and not in the U.S.?

EXCELLENT question. I asked this directly of Atari at the time and they had no answer.

 

17 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

I now feel like that the XEGS joypads were ditched in favor of being released with the 7800 in a too little, too late attempt.

We didn't even get the pleasure of having the Control Pads packaged with newer 7800 systems or officially released in the United States. I used to call Atari all the time and ask if these were available, either retail or directly from Atari. (Always spoke with my girl at the front desk, Geraldine). The answer was always "NO". I had to import them from Europe and became one of the first to do so from what I've been told.

[Clint Thompson]

13 minutes ago, RickR said:

I have an XEGS around here somewhere that had been spray painted black.  I'll have to find it and post a pic.  It looks pretty cool that way.

And I think you are on to something with that gamepad connection.  Unmistakable resemblance. 

That would be cool to see! I've got to find an XEGS now 😄

Even though the buttons are small, they still share that round, smooth bubbly button look from the XE. It's so painfully obvious that I can't un-see it now.

6 minutes ago, Justin said:

EXCELLENT question. I asked this directly of Atari at the time and they had no answer.

We didn't even get the pleasure of having the Control Pads packaged with newer 7800 systems or officially released in the United States. I used to call Atari all the time and ask if these were available, either retail or directly from Atari. (Always spoke with my girl at the front desk, Geraldine). The answer was always "NO". I had to import them from Europe and became one of the first to do so from what I've been told.

That's so bizarre. I've never heard confirmation as to why and it's always been one of those things that never made any sense to me as to why. Maybe a legality thing but that doesn't seem to add up either since surely it would extend to Europe if true. The fact that a U.S. company would do this is not only confusing but also kind of infuriating. Though I've heard from others stating their dislike for the joypads. Given the option to the pro-lines though?

What's this about you having a go to Atari girl named Geraldine? Wowzah! 😉

Edited January 23, 2022 by Clint Thompson

[Clint Thompson]

After watching some more videos about the XEGS, I found that my suspicions about the CX78 Joypad being more aimed at the XEGS (or Super XE Game System) even more credible with another clue.... look at the Atari XE Light Gun connector... it's identical to that of the CX78:

 

Were there any other Atari joysticks or otherwise with the connectors like that., CX78 Joypad and Light gun aside?

 

[Justin]

1 hour ago, Clint Thompson said:

After watching some more videos about the XEGS, I found that my suspicions about the CX78 Joypad being more aimed at the XEGS (or Super XE Game System) even more credible with another clue.... look at the Atari XE Light Gun connector... it's identical to that of the CX78:

Excellent observation @Clint Thompson!! That is spot-on 

 

On 1/23/2022 at 12:48 AM, Clint Thompson said:

What's this about you having a go to Atari girl named Geraldine? Wowzah! 😉

Haha yes! Geraldine knew me by name.

I had the direct number to the front desk. This was a (408) number as opposed to the 1-800 number. The (408) number had a more corporate feel to it, as though they were primarily there to take calls from suppliers, developers, etc. whereas the 1-800 number was really the consumer sales line. I didn't know about the 1-800 number for some time, and by then I had already developed a relationship with Geraldine as a contact.

I've mentioned this a few times, including the stories I've shared before here:

 

When I caught the Atari bug and thought I was the only kid on the planet who had an interest in Atari and classic games, I scoured every Toys R Us, Kay-Bee and Sears I could find. While I had just a skosh of success finding clearance Asteroids and E.T. games, along with an occasional Missile Command, RealSports Soccer, and of course a selection of Atari Lynx games, I couldn't for the life of me find an Atari 7800 system or games.

My brilliant mom suggested I call information (this was pre-google) and ask if they had a phone number for Atari in Sunnyvale, CA. Sure enough they did, and the operator offered to connect me to the front desk at Atari.

When the phone rang, Geraldine answered "Good afternoon, this is Atari" in a very polite voice. I suspect she immediately recognized she was speaking with an 11 year old and knew how to handle the call. I briefly told her that I was calling because I had a renewed interest in Atari and was unable to find Atari items locally. I explained that I had grown up playing 2600 & 7800, but my family sold our Atari collection five years prior and bought Nintendo, and now I had a reignited, fiery interest in Atari and was interested in purchasing a new Atari 7800 system and games. Geraldine was very understanding and helpful. She explained that Atari still had a great supply of 2600 and 7800 games, hardware and accessories, and offered to send me a brochure and ordering information, and would include information for the Lynx as well. I cannot tell you how excited I was. I held it together though and acted as professional as an 11 year old could have. I shared enough of my story for Geraldine to remember me in future calls. I would end up calling Atari and speaking with Geraldine about once every month or so. She always knew my name and she was always very gracious and very helpful. In hindsight I'm surprised she didn't send me an Atari Advantage poster or stickers or something.

I was also able to get Julie Wade and John Skruch on the phone on at least two occasions, and spoke with them about the potential of new 7800 games being released for 1993, and was told that new games were "on the horizon" but the focus had shifted to getting the Atari Jaguar ready for launch and continuing support for Atari Lynx. In hindsight I believe they were referring to unreleased Atari 7800 games like Toki, Super Off-Road, Electrocop and others, but I can't say that with certainty. I also ended up semi-prank calling Jack Tramiel at home a few times and recorded our conversations, but that's a story that should be shared in another thread.

As a side note: I remember it was a Saturday around lunch when my mom suggested I call information and ask if they had a phone number for Atari. The operator put me through, but because it was the weekend Atari was closed and I had to wait until Monday to call them back. It felt like an eternity having to wait the rest of the week for the envelope from Atari to come in the mail! When it arrived that Thursday, it was like Christmas. I spent hours reading through every word of every page that Geraldine sent me. For the first time, I could hold something in my hands that came from Atari, that would serve as my ability to order games and systems, it was my connection to the World of Atari and everything that came after.

[Scott Stilphen]

The Atari G1 light gun was intended for the 2600 and 7800, and the black + red coloring scheme matches the 7800 joypad.  The overseas releases of the XG-1 version were packaged in the G1 boxes :)

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Scott Stilphen

[Scott Stilphen]

Btw, the photo of the black XEGS is from 2011:

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/181654-custom-recolor-for-xegs-case/

Some decided to repaint their XEGS black.  It's not a prototype, nor does it have anything to do with the Super XE.  Speaking of the video from the original post, that's from Kieren Hawken, who's rather infamous for peddling misinformation.  The Atari Mirai prototype shell that was found back in 1996 is still a complete mystery as to what it was intended to be, and Hawken's video adds nothing to suggest it might have been for the Super XE.

@Clint Thompson Is this the 7800 poster you were looking for?

Edited February 1, 2022 by Scott Stilphen

[Clint Thompson]

@Scott Stilphen Yeah, I hadn't meant to imply or post that the black painted XEGS was at all related to the Super XE, just used it for visual to match the CX78 in color (even though that's not truly black even under light)

I forgot about the Red light gun, that thing looked amazing! Really too bad Atari decided to change the color over to match the grey XE system.

About the poster, I don't remember seeing it so I'm guessing that's it, thanks for sharing! Interesting to see the help button on the keyboard is blue on the XEGS.

I wouldn't say the Mirai is a complete mystery, though I suppose it's better to say that since it's all truly unconfirmed. But there's no denying the pastel egg buttons from the XEGS being used on that wouldn't possibly transition into what could have been a Super XE system but in which case, why call it Mirai? Apparently it means Future in Japanese.

In the end, whatever it may be, it is an absolute wonk design... back fins (like Japanese sports cars with spoilers?), front bottom swivels, pastel egg buttons, even the triangle to separate the power button in isolation and what would have been something nearly 3 times as wide as a Jaguar cartridge.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Clint Thompson

[Scott Stilphen]

Here's the Atari Super XE specifications in case anyone is interested.

atari_super_xe_game_machine_specification.pdf

[DegasElite]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. They should have run with this at Atari. It could have been a game change if done right. Does this Mirai prototype work? Or, is it just a mockup?

[Clint Thompson]

1 hour ago, DegasElite said:

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. They should have run with this at Atari. It could have been a game change if done right. Does this Mirai prototype work? Or, is it just a mockup?

AFAIK, it's literally just a concept case and what was actually supposed to be inside it is purely speculation sadly, with no actual confirmation somehow

[Atari 5200 Guy]

Speculation or not, those specs by 1988 standards would have created one hell of a machine.  From what I've read, and understand, IBM PCs didn't come close those specs without spending extra money for them.  Even if it was to be a game system, it was placed in the XE line so that makes it a computer as well.  The graphics and sound specs were impressive...very impressive.  I'm going to study those specs more.

[peteym5]

I understand it was suppose to have the original Antic/GTIA chip to make it backward compatible, but have an extra display chip (one for Atari ST) for modes with more onscreen colors.