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Squad Challenge - Berzerk (Atari 5200)

Justin

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in High Score Squad

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Atari 5200 Guy Banana Member

Atari 5200 Guy

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32 minutes ago, Justin said:

Apologies for steering us off topic. I came across the 5200 20th Anniversary article that I thought would be poignant to share here since we're now talking about the 40th Anniversary! Along with the articles I found some "digital artifacts" from this site from long ago that I thought would be fun to share with you guys, from the standpoint of getting to see what Atari I/O was doing 20+ years ago. How amazing is it that websites likes ours, AA and others are now as old as the Atari 2600 was when we first built them?! I was just excited and thought you guys may like to see some old stuff from before Atari I/O became what it is now. I'll be moving that into a new topic.

:atari_5200: Game on!

My apologies.  I got off topic, not you.  I enjoyed the read and I get extra excited talking about the 5200.  But, I will save that for another topic or blog.  On with the game!  Come on guys! Let's fight like a robot and kick Otto's evil batootee.

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Justin Gold Key Member

Justin

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24 minutes ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

My apologies.  I got off topic, not you.  I enjoyed the read and I get extra excited talking about the 5200.  But, I will save that for another topic or blog.  On with the game!  Come on guys! Let's fight like a robot and kick Otto's evil batootee.

@Atari 5200 Guy No it's fine, Atari 5200 is on topic. Random show-and-tell picture day is not. No apologies needed. I have a TON of content for a cool new thread! 🙂 

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Justin Gold Key Member

Justin

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20 hours ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

I still think it would be awesome if the 5100's motherboard could be reverse engineered and produced.  I'd buy one.  I'm sure there are lots of used and NOS parts that could populate that board and make it work.  Just something that would be cool to see in my lifetime.

Unfortunately I don't expect we will see a "5200 Flashback" or much of 5200 anything in the future, but you never know! I was always of the belief that the 5200 should've been A8 compatible, and ultimately I saw the XE as everything the 5200 functionally could have been.

With a lot of time and commitment you could recreate the PCBs and have a short run of them made, maybe if you had a few others to go in on it with you. But to "produce a 5100" would be a mountainous task.

Even if the 5100 had been put into production, I'm of the opinion that it didn't solve any meaningful issues and wouldn't have changed the 5200s fate by much. I loved the look of the original 5200. A slimmed down "5200 Jr." that could be sold for "under 50 bucks!" would be nice, but that would have to be one aspect of a multi-pronged strategy that would have to include completely new controllers and more new, good looking games to strengthen the 5200 games library. By the time the 5100 would make it out the door it would've been Nintendo & Sega time, so they'd have to do a great job with the joysticks and games. I think even under Warner they recognized that a better option would be to move forward with something new.

There are a handful of working 5100s out there. They tend to be expensive, but if the 5200 is special to you, at least these were produced and are still out there in the world somewhere. Maybe one day you will get your hands on one!

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Sabertooth Pear Member

Sabertooth

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Atari 50 has a handful of 5200 games of Atari-owned IP, as does the Atari VCS Vault Vol. 2. Atari 50 also has some A8 titles. The problem with all of these collections, including the plug-n-plays, is that many of the most loved games on the Atari platforms were licensed arcade ports published by Atari or games published by third-parties (e.g. Parker Bros., Activision, etc.).

Licensing these 40-year old properties has a host of challenges. IP holders may be unwilling to license their properties for inclusion. Atari and their partners may not be willing/able to pay what is being asked. The IP holder may not be known. These are just some of the reasons we see the same old collections over and over again.

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Justin Gold Key Member

Justin

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3 hours ago, Justin said:

Unfortunately I don't expect we will see a "5200 Flashback" or much of 5200 anything in the future, but you never know!

I should qualify this by saying that I'm primarily speaking of hardware. I don't think it's very likely that we will ever see a 5200 Flashback (although we did see Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks, so I don't rule it out entirely!) although I think even the Flashback era is starting to sunset.

The more opportunities for 5200 software released on modern platforms the better! I think even with that, when there is an Atari 5200 title that Atari is able to release, potentially superior versions may already exist in A8, 7800 or Coin-Op Arcade form that Atari could be more likely to choose from. That said, the inclusion of A8 games in some of these new complications and products opens the door to more 5200 games being included.

2 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

Atari 50 has a handful of 5200 games of Atari-owned IP, as does the Atari VCS Vault Vol. 2. Atari 50 also has some A8 titles.

I was thrilled to see this.

2 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

The problem with all of these collections, including the plug-n-plays, is that many of the most loved games on the Atari platforms were licensed arcade ports published by Atari or games published by third-parties (e.g. Parker Bros., Activision, etc.).

Absolutely correct! Especially games like Pole Position, Dig Dug and Xevious, which were released in arcades as "Atari" games, ported to Atari home video game systems as Atari products, and the public at the time thought of all of these things as "Atari". Unfortunately so much of this has been chipped away at.

Plus there's the issue of the 1984 split between Coin-Op and Home Consumer. Some of these "Atari" games that really would've been great hits, like Road Blasters, S.T.U.N. Runner, Marble Madness and Paperboy aren't included in Atari compilations, but some are often included in "Midway Classics" releases.

2 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

Licensing these 40-year old properties has a host of challenges. IP holders may be unwilling to license their properties for inclusion. Atari and their partners may not be willing/able to pay what is being asked. The IP holder may not be known. These are just some of the reasons we see the same old collections over and over again.

These are EXCELLENT POINTS, very well stated by @Sabertooth who totally gets it! These issues are far too often overlooked by much of the retro gaming community who are more into having a great time playing classic games than untangling the legalities of IP.

Spend five minutes looking into getting licensing rights for Chip's Challenge and you'll see what I mean.

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Atari 5200 Guy Banana Member

Atari 5200 Guy

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1 hour ago, Justin said:

Plus there's the issue of the 1984 split between Coin-Op and Home Consumer. Some of these "Atari" games that really would've been great hits, like Road Blasters, S.T.U.N. Runner, Marble Madness and Paperboy aren't included in Atari compilations, but some are often included in "Midway Classics" releases.

In a strange twist of fate, Warner owns those IPs now along wth Midway and Williams IPs.

I also agree that the 5100 wouldn't solve anything.  The controllers were the system's Achilles heel unfortunately.  Those would have to be completely redesigned before a "5200 Flashback" would be of any interest. I personally did not have issues with them growing up but I can't overlook how many other 5200 owners did. I simply chalk it up that I was one of the lucky few.

I also agree with Saber.  It has to be very difficult to get approvals and that's if the IP owner agrees at all.  But it is also not easy when more than one IP owner is involved.  As an example remember Kids Incorporated?  Ever wondered why that show has never seen a DVD release?  Disney owns the rights to the shows but Sony owns the rights to the music and I believe there's also a third party involved as well. All of them would have to come to terms before a DVD could be released.  The same goes with video games.  

I received a Contra collection for Xbox for Christmas. Great compilation but somehow Konami is emulating Nintendo systems. A few of the games are NES and game boy games.

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RickR Gold Key Member

RickR

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6 minutes ago, Justin said:

Here's a question for you guys - How do you think 5200 Berzerk compares to what was on ColecoVision at the time? :donkey_kong:

"Frenzy" on Colecovision is my favorite game on that system.  It doesn't have speech like 5200 Berzerk, but the controls, music, and variety of Frenzy make it the much better game IMO. 

5200 Berzerk is great, but the controls are weird.  Even with a 2600 stick, it seems to be "governed".  Almost a low priority to the CPU in processing priority.  PS - I think I broke my 2600 stick playing Berzerk last night :) 

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Justin Gold Key Member

Justin

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1 hour ago, RickR said:

"Frenzy" on Colecovision is my favorite game on that system.  It doesn't have speech like 5200 Berzerk, but the controls, music, and variety of Frenzy make it the much better game IMO. 

Should we consider Frenzy for a future ColecoVision High Score Squad Challenge?

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RickR Gold Key Member

RickR

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Just now, Justin said:

Should we consider Frenzy for a future ColecoVision High Score Squad Challenge?

I would play for sure. 

There's a newer homebrew of Berzerk/Frenzy for the 7800.  The Berzerk game plays really well, but has no voices.  Frenzy is good too, but not as fun as the CV version. 

 

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