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Atari ST - Rise of the Demoscene on KS!


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#1 Clint Thompson

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 07:18 AM

For those of you who love the Atari ST and Demoscene stuff, this book is now on kickstarter and I'm proud to be backing it! Truly love this stuff and always have enjoyed the countless demos encountered over the years.

 

https://www.kickstar...e-rise-of-the-d

 

Will make a great addition to the Art of Atari, Business is Fun and Business is War books (when they come out) =D


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#2 Lost Dragon

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 03:39 PM

Utterly GOBSMACKED by potential of this book.

 

I'd previousily read a dedicated article of the developer, in RetroGamer magazine and whilst it covered numerous bases, i was surprised by what was missing,things like mention of:

 

 

Trex Warrior:22nd Century Gladiator...

 

 

 Thalion drawing up plans for Lionheart II, but team split before work could get started, the UK One:Amiga having a Lionheart demo featured on a coverdisk, which had a level not featured in the actual game and Henk Nieborg doing the background visuals for GBC Disyney's Atlantis and GBA Harry Potter:Chamber Of Secrets.

 

Plus no mention of Grandslam going under, leaving them no UK publisher for a while, others who were interested, annouced Amiga titles never making it to the UK as Amiga commercially dying etc.

 

So lot of scope for this book to make amends.


Edited by Lost Dragon, 09 May 2016 - 03:46 PM.

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#3 Lost Dragon

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 03:45 PM

I've been lucky enough to have an email interview with Jurie Horneman and have found the Thalion team to be very open about their work:

 

http://thethalionsou...Artikel/fua.htm

 

But LOOK at the names involved in this:

 

Erik Simon (TEX, Thalion)

Jochen Hippel (TEX, Thalion)

Richard Karsmakers (Thalion)

Michael Raasch (TEX, Thalion)

Tim Moss (The Lost Boys)

Dave Moss (The Lost Boys)

Michael Schüßler (The Lost Boys)

Stefan Posthuma (The Lost Boys)

Stefan Kimmlingen (The Respectables)

Niklas Malmqvist (The Carebears)

Anders Ceronius (The Carebears)

Michael Grohe (Thalion)

Celal Kandemiroglu (Thalion)

 

Makes me laugh when UK Press say ONLY they have THE contacts.

 

And fantastic to see GREYFOX involved, if EVER there was a man, for the job, it's him.

 

His visual flair, love and knowledge of all things ATARI, he's the person you think of when you say Atari.


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#4 Greyfox

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 04:26 PM

Many thanks pal for the mention, I'm only playing a very small part in this, just done a few book page renders for it and gave or tried to give some sound advice to Marco for it, I will say this, it's one of those books that doesn't come along to often, sure we all have the ones with 2 page spreads of screenshots, but this is so much more, the design and flair of it and better still the book binding is going to be second to none, it's like Thalion themselves finesse this, is how good Marco and the team have presented it, it's going to be very unquie"

So if your deciding to treat yourself to something really special and you love the ST, then this is highly recommended, you won't be sorry, from what I've seen, it's something ST spectacular!!

Thanks for the support so far, it's truly appreciated folks.

Darren.
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#5 Lost Dragon

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 01:03 PM

:-) Don't be so humble on yourself Greyfox, there's a bloody good reason people come to you for help with projects like the VCS Enc and now this....

 
 
You've proven yourself 10,000 times over to be THE go-to person, espically Atari related content wise.
 
Homebrew Heroes, Atari Gamer and then 2 volumes of ST Gamer speak for themselves.
 
I wish you'd post up more about Atari in your home, as far too much space seems to be spent still, covering Atari in USA, UK etc.I've already bemoaned lack of coverage on Atari in Japan, but i also feel Atari in Ireland is never reported on.

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#6 Lost Dragon

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 01:11 PM

Going by the previews on the kickstarter page, this book really does look to be produced by people involved with the ST scene from it's commercial era onwards and have a TRUE understanding of the source material, technical know how etc, rather than just copying and pasting quotes/other material from various online sources, with little/no understanding of the subject matter, nor how to include it in context as part of an article.

 

Also no, easy answer solutions to images, nothing simply taken from UK Magazines or cover discs and slapped in, just to fill a gap, though it is good to see them using things like group photo's used by likes of ACE etc, but it's clear they understand the importance of using correct images in correct context, not just filling a gap.

 

Looking at that huge list of sources/names, i get impression we are talking far more in depth research than a simple group Facebook interview type approach here, thankfully, so we should get far better coverage than potted history type articles....



#7 Lost Dragon

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 01:19 PM

My only concerns so far (judging from preview screens shown) is that i hope there aren't too many pages laid out like the Chambers Of Shaolin pages...

 

 

I say this because the 2nd page just looks far too empty.

 

3 smallish in-game screens, another small image of an ST and then some lines of text here and there, rest of page? just a backdrop.

 

I'm all for high page count, but i'd rather pages were bursting with imagery/info, myself, otherwise my OCD thinks 40% of page is wasted.

 

It's constructive feedback, i like to be 100% honest with folks, after all these projects are after my money :-) so i'll give clear indication of what i personally feel works, what doesn't and why i feel more could be done.


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#8 Greyfox

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 07:12 PM

Thanks for that, I have no control over the content, this is completely down to Marco the author, the minimalism is purely a design of light on the eyes imagery accompanied with informative text, I myself am a whore for over doing it on the visuals with my stuff, but this is been done by a German designer, so I suspect they love things to be tight and clean, so I suspect it will be like this thought out the book, which is accessionally a bad thing, it should fit the flow of the book very well.

As regards the Irish Atari scene, hmm..I mainly remember it to be a great period of discovery of software, friendship and computer enlightenment, these were times which I'm sure many here can relate that had all of us in a specialist subject with very little people knowing what it was all about. There was a great Atari Club scene, from which all walks of life attended, those elite to the walk in of the street, nobody held any bias or meanness towards the skill sets. But for me to talk about my time with Atari would take a lot of back tripping and pulling stories together to give it in full, but I can say this I left the Atari 8-bit with over 2,000 programs lol and was at ground zero when Happy Drives and U.S.Doublers arrived, so I've lived the Atari dream lol. But thank you for your interest, I'll do it one day.
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#9 Lost Dragon

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:13 AM

;-) I do appreciate just how impossible it must be to produce content in a visual format that is all things to all people, but yeah,I'm kinda person who believes both sides of the coin should be mentioned when it comes to constructive criticism.

I really do hope that one day, your insights into the Irish Atari scene become a reality, it sounds like there's a lot of fresh ground waiting to be covered.
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#10 Lost Dragon

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 07:20 AM

Despite being interviewed online/in various magazines over the years (just sent Clint something i hope folks will like)/group Facebook interviews for RG features, you name it, the 1 person i never heard much from, was Thalion UK's Tony King.

 

It was Tony who wanted to release Ambermoon in English, yet sadly game was never commercially released :-( and Thalion UK said to be in trouble by 1994.

 

I'd also of loved to of known if it was Tony who saw Trex Warrior get a UK P.D release (full game) thanks to a magazine cover disk, plus was he involved in securing the exclusive Lionheart level featured on a cover disk demo as well?

 

Lot still to be told about UK side of Thalion and i honestly expected a UK magazine, using a UK writer to look into this aspect a lot more...

 

Sadly it was not to be.


Edited by Lost Dragon, 13 May 2016 - 07:28 AM.


#11 Clint Thompson

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 11:13 AM

They've added a 35 EUR option without the goodies so it's a little less expensive. I really hope this thing gets funded with only 20 days to go, it still needs a whopping $30,000. I really want this book! Hopefully there will be an alternative option if it doesn't fund though it really deserves to be!


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#12 Lost Dragon

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:21 AM

Your going to be getting a lot (more) Thalion content on the memory stick i'm going to send my friend and hopefully, it will porovide the more balanced outlook even Thalion themselves are happy to give, that dispels the myth that has sometimes cropped up in recent UK articles about them, giving the misconception that everything ST/Amiga wise they touched was gold.

 

I know articles are often intended as a celbration as it were, but in reality here in UK:

 

 

 A320 Airbus sometimes seemed to leave a reviewer cold, as whilst it could'nt be faulted from technical or realism point of view, many found the subject material too 'dull' for them, they'd rather play something like Falcon or Interceptor....

 

Ghost Battle was described as a not very well done Ghosts N Goblins clone, flat, sluggish and dull..

 

Wings Of Death took flak for too much time being spent on audio/visual aspects, not enough on gameplay to turn it into anything more than a Dragon Spirt clone...



#13 Lost Dragon

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:24 AM

Also 

Lionheart, which indeed pushed the Amiga on a technical level, had many Amiga owners complaining that it had arrived too late, they found controls initally frustrating, unresponsive, gameplay too run of the mill, worlds got shorter further into game you got, Dragon riding level, whilst adding variety, was weak etc etc.Plus whilst you cannot fault what Thalion achived in terms of getting more colours, SNES style zoom and rotation effects from Lionheart, it came at a price.If you were playing on standard A500/A600 you had noticable slowdown....so even they often asked more than hardware could give.

 

I've seen the Bitmap Bros get same Rose Tinted glasses treatment at times, Magic Pockets ( i bought the damn thing) start of a decline and not greeted by glowing praise at review previous games had seen.

 

As long as the articles in this book show both sides, i'll be happy.


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#14 rockabit

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 12:55 PM

Hi guys,

 

this is Marco Breddin, the writer of the Atari ST Anthology. Last 5 days of the campaign. I have overworked the page and added a new bundle called "The Undead Factory-Book-Bundle". It contains a huge Demoscene Poster with hundreds of Logo art (160*90cm) designed by a french graphic designer, who has also a scene past.

 

You are invited to visit us again on http://kck.st/21I7feE

 

If you have questions I'll happily answer them.

 

Regards,

Marco 


Edited by rockabit, 01 June 2016 - 12:57 PM.

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#15 Lost Dragon

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 02:39 PM

Hi Marco,

 

Bloody fantastic to have you here with us.

 

Hope you didn't find my comments above overly critical :-) when i feel strongly about something with such potential (as this project has) i'll call a spade a spade and explain what i find works and what doesn't and why, from the viewpoint as a customer, plain and simple.

 

I do have a question for you, if that's ok?

 

I really WANT this to become a reality, but never backed a Kickstarter project, don't even have a PayPal account, so...

 

 

A)Is there any 'other' way to help fund it? ie Money Transfer etc?

 

And B)God forbide the Kickstarter falls short, but if it does...is there  a plan B to bring this to market?.

 

Basically my friend, i badly want this book, have funds here ready to help, how the devil do i get them to you, other than Kickstarter?

 

I'm happy to take 'The Risks' people have via any Kickstarter as i believe strongly in this project.


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#16 rockabit

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 04:13 AM

Hi Lost Dragon,

where do you fly today? ;-)

 

I am afraid you cannot help me if you do not support the project on Kickstarter. The successful funding is the only way the book will come to live. Btw Kickstarter does not allow payment through Paypal, you need a credit-card instead.

 

If you don't have a credit card, you can ask a friend and make the deal with him. ;-)

It won't make any sense to give me money, because I myself have to ask another friend of mine to take it then... that turns out to be complicated and you need a lot of trust to do that. I won't do it, by the way. 

 

If it fails, I will restart the project on a lower level, but I don't want to go into detail here. I must see the sum at the end, that's what count to estimate what can be done to realize this dream-project of mine.

 

 

Retro-Regards and thanks for your openness,

Marco 


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#17 Clint Thompson

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 07:10 AM

I've seen a lot of great Kickstarters and this is the first one that pushed me to back it, so there's that! Best of luck! Still have some time...


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#18 rockabit

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 05:22 AM

Kickstarter again live!

 

Restarted:  http://kck.st/263wBJT

 

Regards,

Marco


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#19 Greyfox

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:21 AM

And is now successfully funded!!! This book is quite important as it details how the Atari ST demo scene turned demo makers and cracking teams in fully fledged game Devs, Their games may not of been amazing wonders to some, but they did push the hardware to what ST was capable off at the time and will include brand new insights and hopefully great information that hasn't been tapped upon before.

So while it has been now funded, they are looking into stretch goals and has still 11 days to go before the campaign ends, so it's great to announce that the book is happening and is your chance to get a hold of this first book on the Atari ST.
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#20 Clint Thompson

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:45 AM

So excited it reached goal this time around! =D


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