CrossBow

Well, the main problem with the 2600 (And 7800 running 2600 games), is that many of the games, including those from Atari themselves. Weren't keeping to the strict scanline counts properly. On CRTs this doesn't matter so much, but LCD are NOT very tolerant of this loose programming. As a result there are 2600 games that will NOT display properly on LCDs and even a UAV or any video upgrade is NOT going to correct for this. Even RGB modded 2600s do not work on some displays and scalers properly due to scanline programming issues in the games themselves. Here are a few examples I can name off the top of my head and what their issues are on modern displays: - Moon Patrol. Game will play fine, but the title screen has the wrong scanline programming. As a result it will either show up scrambled or rolling, or give you a black screen completely when the title screen comes up. The Tink2s devices were bad with this game and the Tink5x is a little improved. - Empire Strikes Back. Game plays fine but scanline count programming comes into play when you blow up the AT-ATs. The screen normally flashes lots of colors but will cause modern TVs to blank out for a second or just go screwy when it happens. Again, the tink5x seems to handle this game better. - Asteroids. The game plays fine, but as it uses a LOT of flicker to generate the rocks, you will see odd lines through the rocks instead of solid colors due to the scaler in your TV or other device not liking the interlace video and not handling it properly. Not much can be done about this... - Starmaster. I've been told the game will constantly blank out on the Tink2x and is unplayable but I believe works okay on the Tink5x. - Buck Rogers. The game will play fine but the title screen will cause issues with scalers. This is the ONLY game that my Extron has issues with. On my Extron the title screen is completely scrambled and rolling crazy fast. Once I press the reset switch, the game screen comes up and looks fine. So those are just a few I know right off hand. There are others that will cause issues at certain parts. So yeah an AV upgrade isn't going to correct for programming errors in the games that cause the issues. The games themselves would need to be fixed. And as I stated above with my Extron. Buck Rogers is the ONLY game I've found to have any issues for me. All the other examples I listed do not show any problems on my Extron. So this goes back to the scaler being used being part of the problem in how they handle non standard scanline counts in a game.

BTW the same thing is true with upgrading to RGB also. Color artifacting no longer works the cleaner and more clear the signal becomes. Programmers took advantage of the color artifacting to make games appear to have impossible colors or to blend in hues of colors that couldn't actually be shown. I still prefer to have the perfectly stable and clear picture presented by the upgrades on my larger TV in the game room so I'm okay with the few games being affected by it.

This is accurate but also some LCDs actually handle it better than others. Good example is that my big Sony in the game room doesn't do well with any RF sources. Most of them have horrible snow interference and color bleeding or streaking across the screen. Heck EVERY single Intellivision I've connected to my LCD in the game room, will cause the image to bounce up n down. Every single Intellivision... But on my small cheap little Insignia brand LCD I use on the bench they come in looking really good. In fact I send burn in test shots to my clients that show their console playing a game both through RF and composite/s-video. And they are surprised by how clear the RF looks in those pics. So yes, the TVs themselves can make or break on whether you want to use RF or not. As I mainly game in the game room, I had to do video upgrades to my consoles so I could play them without horrid noise and other stuff that detracted from playing them. As for the colors...yes you are correct on this as well. Any game that uses artifacing of the NTSC signals will not look right through these upgrades. Far as I know, there aren't any 5200 games that made use of this that were officially released. But plenty of 8-bit stuff did on the computers. Nearly all of the pinball games on the 8-bit will look like white or purple striped graphics through s-video. Plug in composite or RF and you suddenly see those sections were colored in. But it must not bother the 8-bit community too much because most of them are running their Atari computers through some form of AV upgrade and totally cool with no longer having those artifact colors work. BTW, there are 2 games on the 7800 that make use of artifacting that are effected by the UAV upgrade. Jinks and Tower Toppler. Jinks isn't affected nearly that bad and is still quite playable, but Tower Toppler looks bad through s-video as the stripes of solid colors that created the artifacting effect show through. As a result, on Tower Toppler only the bonus stages look correct as they didn't use artifacting effects for the colors in that section of the game. Even on composite, the colors still aren't correct on Tower Toppler. TT is the only game that is impacted in a negative way with a UAV upgrade. That is why I keep the RF intact on the ones sent to me unless my clients specifically state to remove it. Here is an old pic of Tower Toppler I took through composite on my LHE upgraded 7800 years ago. Both the composite and s-vid are more clear through a UAV but still show the same issues in regards to color artifacts not working properly. And here is what that same shot looks like through s-video. You can see that the colors being shown weren't actually there in the signal but were due to errors in the signal being interpreted by the tuner. As a result of the much cleaner signal of s-video, you lose this artifacting effect and see the actual signal that was being sent. So yes, you lose some color definition going s-video but only if the game/games were programmed to specifically abuse this effect through NTSC. Far as I know this is not a PAL thing and is why PAL games use different palettes in them. Same thing with even newer systems that used dithering as that is a similar effect to create transparencies when the console didn't have the ability to do so. Jaguar games and Genesis games used a LOT of dithering and that is also lost in the move to cleaner signals.

The UAV really is a wonder and I say one of the best upgrades a person can make on their classic Atari systems. I also agree that the LHE is no where near the quality of what the UAV can provide, but there are those that believe the LHE is good enough or in some cases still a better option. The LHE is still made but sold under Winzmod on ebay. The UAV does a great job with s-video on the 5200. But it makes sense as the UAV was originally designed for the Atari 8-bit computer line. The 2600 and 7800 were added later with the rC and rD versions of the UAV. The 5200 has the same video as the 8-bits so it makes sense it would work so well with it.

Shoot me a PM with your information. I just desoldered an exact switch off one of my parts light sixers.

Well I happen to really like Fractalus as well so it is good game to show the differences between them. Another one that is excellent to use is Jungle Hunt on the last scene with the cannibals and our girlfriend hanging over the large caldron. In composite, the tree almost looks like it is on fire because of the color bleeding and general "compositeness" of the combined signal. But on s-video you can clearly see the difference in the details on each individual pixel and color used. Scene from Jungle Hunt on composite (CVBS) And here is the same scene through s-video.

I would imagine it can but I'm not sure how it would handle those games with odd scanline counts which, is what you are alluding too? My only suggestion in regards to the video is two things I noticed: 1st. is that you still have everything stretched widescreen 16:9. As you have a Sony TV same as I do in my game room, Use the WIDE button on the remote to set it to normal or zoom 1 to better fit the game on the screen without stretching it. It also helps with some of the vertical bars that are still able to seen in some instances like when you were showing Chess. 2nd is that the audio appears to be out of sync on that last game that was shown? Was the audio recorded separate from the video? Thank you for including me in your video! I didn't expect that and hopefully I don't come across as some babbling fool in the process?

And you have to remember that you and I worked out a trade deal. Normally my clients are paying that return shipping so getting upgrades done on a console is an investment for my clients. That is why I try and make sure they feel they are getting their monies worth when they get their systems back.

Not sure on the 800xl but apparently on the 130xe it has issues out of the box. So I added a UAV into my 130xe to replace the original composite and s-video circuit within the system. Looks really good although on my 130xe I sill have some vertical jail bars. Been told this is due to most of the s-video cables for the Atari systems are crap and don't shield the signals enough. But I'm fine with how it looks as within most games, you don't notice it. And yes, getting a box big enough is difficult and it is expensive to ship. It depends on the carrier used of course. But as an example my last 5200 shipped to Washington state and it ran about $50 to ship it. So it can easily cost half or more just to ship the console one way as it did to have services performed.

Likely possible you can run that power cord from the box and power it off the USB from your TV itself. That way, you don't need to use the separate adapter and it will essentially turn on when you turn on your TV.

Well, this was not for me. This is actually one of my client's 5200s they sent to me to get some work done on it. I've advised my clients that they really need to be willing to take a phillips screwdriver and undo the 7 screws on the bottom of it. From there, the entire top half of the shell will lift straight off. From there they can send me the mainboard taped down to the lower case shell using masking or painters tape. Wrap that in lots of bubble wrap all the way around and then send that to me. Costs less in shipping as it weighs less and is far more likely to survive fully intact that way. Proper shipping of a 5200 is no different than anything else. I add padding to the inside of the controller storage so that any pressure exerted from the top of the system doesn't cause the storage door to bend inward and break as easily if it has support pressure from within the storage area. Wrap the entire console in bubble wrap fully. Use a box that is larger than the console and can allow a minimum of 1" of space all the way around the console, top and bottom. Fill the bottom layer with more bubble wrap, packing peanuts or other soft but cushion material. Place the console into the box centered. Fill the space around the console with packing material like peanuts again. Then more bubble wrap sheets above the console until even with the lids of the box.

I'm not trying to put anyone on blast as we all make mistakes. But I cannot stress enough how important it is to pack these old consoles properly to ensure they arrive at their destinations as safely as possible. A 5200 arrived today for services and due the box being the same size as the 5200, the 5200 not being wrapped with any protective bubble wrap and only sitting loose in the box with just some empty amazon padded envelopes, some air bladders, and micro fiber cloths, ended up arriving in less than stellar condition. My advise for all my clients recently has been to send their 5200s to me without the top cover. It only takes a phillips screwdriver and easily removing 7 screws and the entire top shell including the controller storage door can be safely removed. Painters tape can then be used to help secure the mainboard inside the bottom shell with plenty of bubble wrap around it followed by plenty of space all inside the box to be able to add additional packing material be it the horrid packing peanuts, air bladders all the way around top and bottom, or even good packing paper. When you don't... this is what ends up at the end of the journey...

Likely just the cost of shipping it is all. Provided you are in the US. I've got a sixer switchboard that is a parts unit but would have to check if it has the channel select switch on it or not. If it is the same as the switches they used later on, then that is NO problem as I've got several at the ready I can quickly remove from spare 7800 boards and other 4siwtcher parts boards laying around.

Most welcome and thank you as well! I've always stated that with a good s-video output and a means to view it on modern displays, there really isn't a need to go much better on classic consoles from the 80s era. I only have RGB on my Colecovision and Intellivision because at the time: One, there wasn't anything other than composite and RF upgrades for them and Two, the composite kits and circuits for the CV and the Intellivision do NOT look nearly as good consistently as they do on other consoles. Now s-video is technically available for the Intellivision but still requires the RGB board to do it so...might as well go RGB or component output at that point. Glad you are happy with the results! Now... get playing some Super System games would ya!

That isn't just any auction site. It is Heritage Auctions. Why does this not surprise me?

Not able to take any photos right now as the hardware is actually installed in a computer. But I would say my Roland LAPC-I followed by my SCB-55 daughter card. I still kinda beat myself up for essentially giving away my original Adlib card in the very early 90s when I picked up my SBPro.

Agreed, regarding the resale value. Anyone that is going to use it on RF is likely to use it on channel 3 regardless. After all, they are going to most likely use a CRT for that purpose and as there aren't any old analog channels around for most of us, much less using Channel 3. I don't see that as an issue. Like @RickR stated, showing that it is a working console is much more important. But the switches aren't that hard to get either. I might even have one I can remove from a donor light sixer. Even the difficulty switches and channel switches from 4 switch units would likely work although they wouldn't stand as tall off the board so it would be trickier to access the switch. You would have to stick a small screwdriver or something into the opening to actually move it for instance. But you have to do that already right?

As it is just plastic, it is the same switch design that is used in the Intellivision. You carefully lift the tabs on the side and pull upwards. There was originally a metal spring clip inside that connected between the metal contact pads. In on position it would set it to one channel, and for the other the other channel. So you need to see if you can find that small metal leaf spring contact that was inside it. It kinda looks like a small metal clip in the shape of a trapezoid that is missing one side and about 1cm in length. If you can't find it, then as was also suggested. You can short out two of the pads along one side to see which one gives you channel three and then just solder a jumper onto them. Remember that original Heavy 6's didn't even have a channel select switch and were wired for channel 3 permanently back then.

I haven't tried that one but I'm sure it is similar to the one I had that was just a square box so I had to run separate cables to the box and then HDMI output to the TV. But mine also required an extermal power supply and it looks like this one you posted does as well on the side. Likely microUSB. Do you have gender changers for the RCA plugs as this cable harness on this adapter only provides a male s-video. The RCAs are female like what is already on your console.

You mean composite... no component output on that 5200. And you still saw what a difference the s-video makes on my AV setup over composite. So it might still be worth it in the end to get something that lets you use s-video. Even a Tink2x Mini would be excellent in this case and from what I've been told, once the Tink2x products are sold out, they aren't likely to come back with all the focus now being on the Tink5x device.

BTW...there is packing material inside your controller storage section. That is another tip is to fill that up with something so that top pressure on the casing isn't as likely to crack the controller storage door in the middle. Without something there to provide support, it could easily crack in the middle. another tip is to make sure the box you are sending it in, isn't the exact same size around the edges as the console. - Ω - 's box has this issue and so any drop on the corners or banging around and it is likely to make closer contact with the plastic on the corners. Best to use a bigger box with about an inch all the way around. Having said this, I've placed additional bubble wrap material at the corners to cushion this more since I did reuse the same box.

A 5200 I did about year and half ago? Maybe 2 years now. Wasn't packed very well at all and it arrived pretty much shattered. I was able to find a replacement 5200 locally to swap the main board into, but that replacement was pretty beat up looking. But at least it was still intact. Best bet honestly, is to try and find a deal on a parts only 5200 on the bay that still has intact plastics. Course the risk there, is that if they are selling it for parts only, they might not ship is very well and or it already has some broken plastics that can't be seen in the pics. Even the junker I bought locally for that other client, still set me and the client back just over $40 for it. This is why I strongly encourage my clients to remove the top cover shell before shipping it to me. It is only 7 phillips screws and the entire cover and controller storage cover will come right up and off. Use some masking tape or painters tape to hold the main board down inside and around the bottom case shell and it is MUCH more likely to arrive fully intact this way. Saves a bit on shipping as it weighs less, and can use a shorter height box at that point.

As I told you in PMs the case color is more of a chocolate brown. Not just the plastics for the storage door and port cover section but the entire case shell is a dark chocolate brown. It is very easy to see this when you have it under a bright light. First time I saw it I was kinda surprised because I had thought it was black with silver trim, but nope... it is brown. I even included a pic of another 5200 I did not long ago that shows this. In fact if you look at the 5200 cartridges stuck under it to prop it up for the pic, you can see that the cartridge shells are a darker color than the 5200 case shell is. So even the cartridges weren't done in the same color as the 5200 plastic. Also remember that yours is a 2 port and uses the textured plastic, so that is harder to get a good even coat of any kind of paint over it. If you do paint that, as was stated, it is actually translucent, so you need to make out a small dot for the power light indicator to still shine through. I'm surprised that someone by now hasn't designed a replacement that can be done from a resin printer or something by now? Heck, it might even be worth it to have new injection molds made for just the controller storage cover and front top plastic sections. Seems there are move of them out there with cracked/broken ones than fully intact and people might be willing to pay for replacements to make having new molds be worth it?

Well, if it helps. What I'm using isn't too expensive when you think about everything I can do with it. I use an Extron 7SC commercial grade AV selector that dates from around 2003. They are usually quite cheap on eBay etc. But, they only use BNC connectors for the rear inputs and use phoenix connectors for the audio input on the rear as well. I made adapters for the audio to give me standard RCA jacks to use and have BNC to RCA adapters on all of my inputs. Having said that, the best part about the 7SC is that is can take pretty much any analog video input. Composite, S-video, RGB, RGBHV, and YUV component. From there it converts and scales everything to a standard VGA output signal. I set the output resolution on the Extron to the lowest available being 640x480 at a locked 60hz refresh. The extron can output up to 1080P but I found the output image looks better at the lowest setting from it. Here is the current list of 7SC available on the 'bay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=extron+7sc&_sacat=0 From there, that VGA output goes into my OSSC and then to my TV. But, there are inexpensive VGA to HDMI adapters that will work great as I used to use one for while on the Extron before I got the OSSC. They introduce little to no additional lag and as you can see, the picture quality when fully upscaled and sent to my 48" Bravia in the game room is. Well, let's just say that the s-video from a 5200 is so good, that I've never wanted to go anything better on it. I just don't see a need because of how sharp, clear, and vibrant it is already through s-video. Here is a VGA to HDMI very similar to what I was using before I got my OSSC: https://www.amazon.com/FOINNEX-Converter-Computer-Projector-Portable/dp/B07121Y1Z3/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3FRWLARHNKB8I&dchild=1&keywords=vga+to+hdmi+adapter&qid=1632748601&sprefix=vga+to+hdmi%2Caps%2C208&sr=8-8 And yes, the composite image is good, but like most 5200s, you will see some vertical banding on the left hand side due to the noisy DRAM inside the 5200 that is also... interestingly enough, on the left hand side of the main board. I guess the point is that there are s-video to HDMI converters, but they aren't going to produce quite a sharp a picture as what you see in my game room AV setup. The real trick to using something like I have is that it will require space for that Extron as it designed for rack mounting and so it is AV component sized. It also doesn't have an on/off switch on it so as soon as you apply power on the cord, it is powered on and they have a cooling fan. So they can be noisy. What I did with mine aside from making the adapters for simpler audio input, was to find and retro fit a Noctua fan internally for MUCH quieter operation, and installed a large high voltage toggle switch on the front of the case to complete the neutral connected on/off as needed to control actual power so I didn't have to reach around behind it and unplug it all the time when I didn't need it or didn't want to hear it. So yes it was an investment and it required some additional time and money afterwards. But it has given me an amazing amount of flexibility to have a lot of classic stuff connected up at once at the ready with the push of a button (Or the remote for it), and combine that with the VGA to HDMI conversion that the OSSC provides.

Don't feel bad, I would have passed on that O2 myself as I have zero nostalgia for them. I never even knew the original Odyssey existed as a kid much less the O2. I only knew of the smaller pong clones they released like the Odyssey 300 that we had first before getting the VCS.