Scott Stilphen
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Posts posted by Scott Stilphen
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9 hours ago, TrekMD said:
I think it was the limited time AND the difficulty of dealing with the EXEC. The homebrew versions do not use the EXEC but, in fact, bypass it.
I also recall the programmer had no experience programming the Intellivision. That's who you want converting your premo licensed title lol.
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20 hours ago, TrekMD said:
That's already been done: Donkey Kong 2: Lost Levels
He never finished it, and the 2 new levels are very buggy.
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That unfounded rumor is over 40 years old, and was actually about Donkey Kong Junior (which is 8K). It's well known Garry only had 4K and 3 months in which to develop it, and the results speak for themself; he's mentioned that in several interviews over the years. I saw someone recently make that conspiracy claim on the 2600 Facebook group. I would never have asked Garry that question. I don't remember anybody ever asking him that.. until now. What a ridiculous claim, and there was never any great debate about whether or not Garry intentionally did a poor job with it. I think in most cases, programmers did the best they could, to the best of their abilities. Not everyone can program and design games like Garry, Rick Maurer, Bob Polaro, David Crane, or several others. For every Rob Fulop, there were 4 Tod Frye's. Garry has also mentioned several times that had he been given 8K to use, he could very likely included all 4 screens. So there's a challenge for today's homebrewers - take Garry's game and add the other 2 screens :)
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Latest version.
- TrekMD, socrates63, sramirez2008 and 1 other
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On 9/11/2023 at 11:14 PM, MaximumRD said:
I've never seen this one, either. What's the source for it? Some issues with it that make me think it's either not from Atari, or not shown in the U.S., or not real:
As was pointed out, the screenshot on the TV is of Pitfall, which would rule it out from coming directly from Atari. Atari never hyphenated Atari Club, and the address shown (1265 Borregas Ave) was Atari's headquarters in Sunnyvale, CA. The ad mentions filling out the form to join the club, but doesn't mentioned the city, state, or zip code. The early Atari Age newsletters mention the Atari Game Club and the club and the newsletter were based in Half Moon Bay, CA. The Atari Age magazine talks about the Atari Club (no hyphen) and was based in Philadelphia, PA. Galaxian was released in March 1983 and was the newest game of all the others mentioned (Asteroids, Vanguard, Ms. Pac-Man, Centipede), so if this ad is real and was published somewhere, it likely would have been sometime in early 1983.
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All the issues of this are on my site and have been for years:
https://www.ataricompendium.com/archives/newsletters/atari_owners_club/owners_club.html
- TrekMD and MistaMaddog
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Brad at Best Electronics sells them for $5.95 each, but you're limited to 2.
I asked Luke at Console5 if they plan on selling them, and he replied: "Ordering and testing samples of lots of cartridge connectors for various systems right now. If everything passes checks we'll have 5200 connectors available in 1-2 weeks."
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You certainly don't have to test every cartridge when testing a system. I never said you did. In your case, the customer should have absolutely told you up front the issue they were having, and why they thought having a 4-port OS would have fixed it. Had they done that, you could have told them having a 4-port OS wouldn't fix their issue with it, because as far as compatibility issues with original carts, the 3 you mentioned are the only 3:
https://www.ataricompendium.com/game_library/easter_eggs/5200/52supersystem.html
The customer needs a new catridge connector IMO. They also need to clean the edge connector in their Decathlon cart. Yes, it's a known issue with Activision carts that they used a pcb that's slightly thinner than Atari's own. This wasn't an issue 40 years ago, but over time those cartridge connectors are now worn and don't connect as tightly. You're seeing that with your own systems. The best 'upgrade' people can do with their systems at this point is to replace that connector.
As for the Rockwell CPU issue, any 2-port models with that specific CPU should already have had the R-C network added to it from the factory, since the Atari Tech Tip about it (#7) is dated 1-20-83, and the 5200 was released in fall 1982.
"If the diagnostics say everything is good, and the games I play on it via flash cart work then I don't have any reason to believe there is anything seriously wrong with the console. I also don't consider a single game that doesn't seem to work as dictating there is a failure with the console. There has to be other games that would fail in similar fashion if there was a console fault and I and my client didn't encounter any issues other than my client having issues with his Decathlon cartridges"
Flash carts like AtariMax and Backbit Pro can help work-around some compatibility issues, but they also create their own issues sometimes.https://atariage.com/forums/topic/314153-issues-with-pac-man-on-atarimax-multicart-why/
https://atariage.com/forums/topic/290185-can-anyone-help-me-fix-grapthic-issue-on-the-atarimax-sd5200/Some of Steve Tucker's other products also have their own issues. His Atari 800 APE interface has an issue with running several programs (for example, there's no paddle sould in Super Breakout when using it). Also, his Maxflash programer tries to pull an amp through your USB ports and that cost a friend of mine his laptop power supply.
And I just mentioned a recent issue that was found with VCS Berzerk that illustrates why you can't always rely on diagnostic carts, and how a faulty IC can apparently affect a particular game (in that case, a common 4K game). So, I would advice not assuming your diagnostic cart will detect everything. Atari's own arcade games back then have a built-in test program for troubleshooting problems, and guess what? They're horribly inadequate, and sometimes will indicate a chip to be faulty when it isn't.
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Then your client needs to send the system back to you since there's still an issue with it in regards to Decathlon, and it's clear Atari's diagnostic carts can't detect it. Atari's VCS diagnostic cart doesn't do any in-depth testing of the CPU, and "alex_79" wrote a simple test program for testing it, which he posted in this thread:
https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349009-atari-2600-berserk-issue/#comment-5220321
Perhaps he can write a similar one for the 5200.
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If you still have your client's system, I'd start changing the major ICs one by one. Someone on AA recently ran into an issue with Berzerk where the game was unplayable, and it turned out their system's CPU chip was at fault.
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I recently tested a Decathlon cart on a 4-port, and 3 different 2-port systems, and it worked fine with all of them.
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On 11/19/2020 at 12:18 PM, PSVITAGAMER2012 said:
Years ago, Curt Vendel ended up with everything that still survived of this rather ambitious Atari project -- Atari had spent between $3 and 5 million dollars getting it to the 30% completion state in ended up at (was it is a higher percentage? ). The last day of production on this was, Sept 7th 1995, I believe. The Black Ice Team was disbanded and the project was abandoned that day. All materials were trashed or auctioned off by Jack/Sam Tramiel/the famous ( infamous? ) Don Thomas Actions of 1996, I understand. The HDDs and everything just disappeared to it and were lost, it seems. The HDDs have never been found and Curt did not seem to have them. None of the Team was allowed to keep anything from the project by Leonard or Atari Security when they each left and everything halted. Little of the project still survives nowadays, you know. The sands of time have claimed everything else that existed and it has been lost, it seems... Really sad. 😞😞😞😞
Vendel ended up with "everything that survived".... how, exactly? What's your source of this information? Did Vendel personally tell you that? Or did he publicly state that somewhere?
You say all materials were trashed or auctioned off in 1996 and that the hard drives "and everything" just disappeared, and Vendel didn't seem to have it (so I guess if Vendel doesn't have it, nobody does?). "None of the BI/WN team kept anything"...? Then explain how BJ West has 2 different revisions of the game (with the later being the very last version of the game burned to disc before Atari closed up shop), plus the soundtrack?
In this interview with BJ West, he claims the game was some 50%-70% complete:
https://www.arcadeattack.co.uk/bj-west/
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Prior to the Harmony cart (and subsequent Melody boards), Yarusso was getting boards from Joe Grand (AKA Pixels Past). But when the option to use flash carts opposed to programming EPROMs and soldering boards, that's when he changed over. Unfortunately, Yarusso kept a monopoly on those Melody pcbs, to the point that nobody can even purchase the boards for their own projects. Likewise, the information on how to flash them has never been shared, either.
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On 12/17/2023 at 8:36 PM, CrossBow said:
The parts are being provided by Fred Quimby aka Batari on the AA forums.... But the PCBs were coming from Fred.
The pcbs always came from Fred - both he and Chris Walton created the Harmony, and the Melody pcb (and variants of it) are a Harmony board w/o the USB + SD interface board. But is Fred programming them, or is John C?
Yarusso always printed his own labels and manuals, and possibly the boxes? (though I think he might have out-sourced those).
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Who's making the carts?
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Someone on highscore.com has a 2-port model that plays both Decathlon and Pitfall, so I'm guessing his system is one of the early 2-port versions that has the 4-port BIOS:
http://www.highscore.com/scores/Atari5200/ActivisionDecathlon/77613
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Another keynote showing more contradictions from Tod Frye. At this year's PRGE, Frye admits what we already knew - that he didn't care much for arcade Pac-Man:
https://youtu.be/Olagk6ZI_Sc?si=xAXGhbm9hXSe9v0l&t=1260
Frye talks about the development of Pac-Man, but offers a different excuse as to why he didn't use the earlier kernel he developed:
"We were mastering the kernels that reused the players vertically down the screen. I didn't do that in Pac-Man. I had a kernel that did it, but I had to throw it away because I ran out of time to finish it. No, I had the kernel but I didn't have the flicker manager which is a completely different thing.":
https://youtu.be/Olagk6ZI_Sc?si=3vPtIN9p0DoPbl6j&t=1468
The explanation he offered in Once Upon Atari was that he was under probation at the time, and after someone remarked that nobody had ever designed a kernel like that before, he opted not to use it (out of spite for being under probation, I guess).
Later on, Frye talks about when Atari sent GCC a copy of all their VCS game source code listings. Frye claims that when GCC later sent Atari a copy of all of their VCS listings, that, "I will say with no false humility whatsoever a lot of their tech looked a lot like what I'd done in Pac-Man with horizontal columns.":
https://youtu.be/Olagk6ZI_Sc?si=zoy1Q7GyMO3tkOer&t=2417
So, he not only contradicted himself with previous keynotes and interviews he's given about Pac-Man's kernel, he's done it in the same keynote! Now, how could GCC had a copy of his earlier Pac-Man kernel if he'd thrown it away? If he's mistaken about that bit and GCC actually did end up with a copy of his earlier work, and used that for the basis of their Ms. Pac-Man and other VCS games, then he has no reason to complain about it. He had the chance to use it - and be the first to use it - and didn't. But to claim he had a better kernel, but threw it out because he didn't have time to finish it... but yet had time to start over and create a new kernel? That makes zero sense. Rob Zdybel is right - there's something off about Frye's recollections, and it seems the more time that passes, the more 'fried' (pun intended) his memory seems to get.
Also, Rob Z. claimed in a previous keynote that GCC never shared any of their VCS listings with Atari (or if Atari had copies of them, they never shared them with the VCS group). I again will side with Zdybel over Frye's account. We certainly know GCC didn't reuse anything from the released version of Pac-Man, because there was nothing special about how it was programmed as far as any innovative tricks.
Frye also criticizes Warshaw for not asking for help with E.T. Well, he did have help with it. Jerome Domurat created 1.5K of graphics code for it. If anyone should have been asking for help, it was Frye with Pac-Man. He also mentions someone at the show told him he should have chosen to do Defender, since that was one of his favorite games. Well, Frye claimed in Once Upon Atari that he was offered first choice to do either Defender or Pac-Man, and left it up to Bob Polaro to chose; Polaro couldn't see how Pac-Man could be done (apparently without it sucking) and picked Defender. Both were poor conversions, but if given the 'stuck on an island' decision of picking one or the other, I'd pick Defender. Much like Pac-Man, Defender's kernel didn't rely on vertical separation, which is why it flickers as badly as Pac-Man. Chopper Command was clearly Activision's take on Defender, and shows what a kernel that uses vertical separation looks like.
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On 12/2/2023 at 2:06 AM, Justin said:
I never said it appeared in a publication. Where are you getting that?
Ok, source. I'd like to know the source of that info.
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It looked great compared to the XE version. There's some screenshots on my site: https://www.ataricompendium.com/game_library/easter_eggs/7800/78gato.html
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On 9/18/2023 at 10:29 PM, Justin said:
Crazy thing is, I believe Atari announced they were going to release a new and improved Donkey Kong and DK Jr for the 2600, when Atari acquired the Coleco 2600 library. When they were asked why they released the same DK and DK Jr for 2600, they said they had given it an Atari cartridge shell and better label 😑
I think @Video 61 may remember more details about this story than I do.
I'd like to know what publication that announcement appeared in.
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4 hours ago, CrossBow said:
IBut like all large companies, I'm sure that getting the 2600+ out the door in time for the Holiday shopping was more important so I suspect such an update won't happen for sometime. Still, I've bought other similar products not just from Atari, but others because such companies won't have much interested in fixing or releasing better stuff if they don't sell enough of what they have made already. They guys from Plaion have said that the success of the 2600+ will determine what other future products we might see.
Shades of E.T. again. That's probably the most 1982-era Atari thing Atari Interactive has done yet. As for the guys from Plaion, they likely have nothing to worry about. Atari Interactive has been pushing questionable products for 20 years, and the same people who buy those will buy the 2600+ and Gamestation Pro in enough quantities to ensure similar products will continue to follow. But I personally don't see anything 'plus' or 'pro' about either of them.
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I never used those converters and I'm not about to spend $150 on a 2600+ and a converter to do testing that Atari should have already done by now. I mean, this is being marketed as a classic VCS, and yet the only video output is HDMI; you can't use it with a CRT w/o using some sort of 3rd-party adapter (which automatically leaves out any light gun games). You mentioned the system puts out 720p, although it's not a standard spec (your own video capture device has an issue with it, so I would expect various TVs and converters would as well). That's a hardware issue. Do you think Atari will have a firmware update to address that?
As for lag, I've seen this video about the Gamestation Pro that shows some controller latency with using them wirelessly compared to wired:
Yesterday someone in the Atari 2600 Facebook group was complaining that neither a joystick or a paddle works with Astroblast, in either controller jack.
Just today I learned the difficulty switches on the system are reversed, even though they're apparently marked correctly on the pcb: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357155-difficulty-switches-reversed/
Yarusso took several of these systems to PRGE last month for people to try out.... and nobody reported any issues with them? I'm left to think there weren't many carts available to try, which would explain the silence on that end.
Lastly, as for your comment:
"And the only way to get the current Atari to provide more games and products that are likely to want to buy is by supporting the current efforts where it at least appears they are trying."
They already lost my support with $60 games like Mr. Run & Jump or $60-$100 re-issues of old, common 4K games. Their latest batch of cart releases don't even include a manual (but then again, neither does the 2600+). We've had most homebrewers including high-quality manuals with their games for years that not only were superior to Atari Corp's cheap sepia-colored manuals, but on par with some of Atari's and Activision's best manuals. And Atari Interactive can't do that now? Hell, they included full manuals with all of the Flashback systems. Oh, but the boxes are nice, aren't they? Sure, but how do you play the games? What are all the different game variations with each game? I see Rosen's Atari as a company that's more interested in putting out stuff with the Atari name on it, and making something that can be considered a collectible; actually using and playing the items is secondary.
I'm not supporting any company that dumps flawed product onto the market that they can't even bother doing any basic testing on. Issues like difficulty switches and fire buttons being reversed are pretty simple to catch in testing, as new owners are now proving. Seriously, this is amateur-level QC-ing stuff here. Either Atari made no effort to discover these for themselves,or worse, they knew about them, and simply released it anyway. Atari wants me to support their efforts? They need to earn it. Why should I financially support this or any other half-a@@ed efforts? People buying one of these shouldn't have to run through every cartridge in their collection to see if it works or not - that's something Atari should have done, and they should have done it 6 months ago. Atari's own marketing campaign slogan for this is "No cartridge left behind", right? Much like most of the other 2600-like systems I mentioned, all these issues just reek of very little if any quality control testing being done. It's as if they got it running on a bench, tested a few carts, labeled it "Good enough" and pushed it out the door. The system just came out, and already people are asking about updates for it to fix some of these issues. When Atari laid a similar egg 40 years ago with the 1200XL, they didn't try and fix it; they killed the system and replaced it with better systems. But if you're okay with only having 'some homebrew' carts work, then I guess that's good enough for you. That's modern gaming these days - push out an incomplete or flawed product, and then push out endless patches and fixes... but that's not classic Atari. I never thought I'd see the day were playing a VCS game would involve loading times, and yet here we are. All I can say is, I guess get used to seeing the "Loading Game Failed" message.
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18 hours ago, CrossBow said:
@Scott Stilphen you also seem to be making comparisons from the Atari of 10 years ago to the Atari of today, and they really aren't the same group of folks running things. To me, the past year and recent game releases and the 2600+ demonstrate to me that the current Atari or I should say, those currently operating as Atari, seem to care and seem to be trying. So I'm optimistic for now.
I'm looking at what Atari Interactive has done in the last 20 years, starting with licensing games out to Jakks Pacific in 2003 and Basic Fun in 2006, and then their Flashback systems starting in 2004; same company, just with different CEOs. Supporters of the 2600+ and Gamestation Pro say the main reason for buying them is so that you can easily connect them to modern TVs (via HDMI). I'm saying, why not use a real system (eliminating all these compatibility and controller lagging issues), do an A/V upgrade to it, and use a $15 RCA-to-HDMI converter. Isn't that a better, all around option?
Was Coleco's Donkey Kong Port for Atari 2600 SABOTAGED? | Garry Kitchen Settles It!
in Atari 2600
Posted
True, but if you have the home rights to the 2nd most popular game in the world, are you going to limit yourself to only use it as a pack-in game, when the biggest competitor in the business already has a userbase of 10-15 million units?
There's also a thread hear about DK Jr not long ago where we talked about DK: