Clint Thompson

Dare I say this thread is full of win! ;-)

1UP!

You know what to do!

More cool stuff to give away - interest level here doesn't seem to be nearly as high but just in case: www.facebook.com/AtariJaguar64/

I've never heard of Iron Soldier for the Falcon and that doesn't seem really possible imo. No idea about Ted Hoff and Batman Forever claims but they already had it on the Lynx so I'm unsure what would've been so difficult. They could get all the licenses in the world but the game still translated into garbage. The Jaguar CD was seriously started in early 94 and I just remember the development notes being issues with the data transfer and errors as a result due to some weird interference that they finally found a work around for. It's insane to think it took them so long to release the Jaguar CD. We may have actually seen some more Jaguar CDs and MKIII on CD would have been far more likely.

You make a very valid point about MKIII on the Jaguar with literally no coverage regarding the conversion outside of 'it's being worked on' sort of talks and basic stills most definitely taken from other consoles as placeholder. There's no doubt though, that like NBA Jam T.E., MKIII could have been an amazing game for the Jaguar if actually developed and released. Pretty sure if there would have been anything left in that regards that Carl Forhand/Songbird would have already worked very hard in getting it produced and released.

Turns out I had one from DG on this system, I'll have to track down the others but this gives you a decent idea. It doesn't like emulators very much as the ship is blown way out or proportion and the scene to gameplay bypasses quickly. The text you see here with the same background was a whole lot of what you would see in The Assassin.

I've got the several builds of The Assassin and Dark Guardian but again, neither are much outside of text prompts and a flying ship that just pans around the screen. Cool intro on DG with music and such but outside of that, a lot of empty space. I'll see if I can post some screens when I come across the bins again.

There was early Hammerhead gameplay video in one of the E3 videos on YT somewhere but I don't recall it looking any better at all. Not sure about the Dactyl Joust but since it came from Carl Forhan believe it to be of reliable source in being legit, though I suppose there's no proof without the pudding. I was showing OMC's stuff at JagFests like Dark Guardian and The Assassin but there wasn't very much progress on either really, just demo kind of stuff. The artist that was working with James for The Assassin was awesome however. He had some really great scenes created and looked super promising. The intro with the city skyscrapers and Assassin shadow or outline himself was very awesome and most of it was just text placeholder on screen. There was a bedroom/hotel screen that looked awesome but I have no idea where that picture is, though it's possible I still have it on an old hard drive somewhere. Either way, incredibly early stuff, no real gameplay outside of pressing a button and passing through text dialogue really.

Well said Lost Dragon. There's not really much I personally hope to surface after all this time but now going over the Kasumi Ninja 2 CD documents, it would appear as though some work was actually done on this and I'm curious as to where it's sitting. Comments on KN II Technical Specification These comments are, in general, confined to the assumptions, about the Jaguar, that I infer from the document. 1) Page 6: The second block of pseudocode never calls InitFMV. Where was this meant to be? 2) Page 7: It is not clear that you realize that CD reading occurs "in the background" 3) I do not see what requires the leap to a multitasking system. If you mean that the CD reading must occur in the background, it is already done. 4) The error rate on the CD is VERY low. It is unclear if it is worth it to go to much effort to maintain smooth operation in the case of recoverable data errors when the data errors are so low. 5) Page 7: What processor do these engines run on? 6) Page 8: What IRQ stuff do you need to do that involoves the CD? 7) Page 10: I hope you use incremental backup! 8) Page 11: The balancing of resource usage is a skill that applies to all endevours. The bus bandwidth in a Jaguar is NOT infinite. Therefore it can be overloaded. You must balance the time required for the Object Processor with the speed of the blitter etc. What did the Object Processor do KN? Why is the balance likely to change? 9) The CDBIOS will change over time. Giving you source will mean that KN II will not work with future revs, this is unacceptable. 10) The CD system is cannot be reentrant. It cannot instantly switch from reading one spot on the disc to reading another. Is this what you mean by "be able to multitask the BIOS"? 11) The question of whether or not "the hardware is capable of the required task" is only valid if the software is perfect. This is not likely to be the case. A more resonable question is whether the system (hardware and software) can be made to perform as required. Note that this also calls the system design into question. 12) Page 12: I think you mean 26.6 x 106, not 26.66. 13) 100æs seems VERY short. The range is however quite reasonable at the top end so wy not? 14) Page 13: What computation resulted in the number 128kb for the size of a CD buffer? 15) Double buffering the screen DOES NOT" relieve object processor bus overhead". 16) Are you aware that we supply a LZSS system on the BBS. 17) Page 14: What does "Loading ... into a register file..." mean? The GPU can ONLY load into and store from registers. The Blitter is quite efficient at loading GPURAM. 18) Page 18: You state that a file system is an important requirement, why? Is this a general concern or only as a result of some engine that you already have? 19) How would the "emulator" that you mention help you? The time required to sned the data down the parallel cable is SO long that it will be useless for any but the most trivial testing.We agree that the Falcon hard disc swap problem is real. What would be a good solution? Surely you can find a switch box so you need not "swop" hardware! 20) In your discussion you say, "If the main process is busy, so that data is missed, the same overhead applies". What does this mean? Data cannot be missed. It is placed in memory. 21) Short seeks in a CD are fast. It is long seeks that are slow. 22) Why should the CD be kept going? Once the data you need is loaded the CD, can, and should be paused. 23) Why do you need a circular buffer? 24) You talk again about "missed data", how does this happen? 25) Page 19: Why is a file system needed to keep the disc spinning? Just don't stop it, then it will keep spinning! 26) Implementing a forward seek via waiting for data to arrive is NOT a good general solution. The MAXIMUM seek time from one end of the CD toanother is measured in seconds. The wait time for the same "seek" (at double speed!) is more than 30 minutes! 27) Much too much effort has gone into the "problem" of CD read errors! These errors are VERY rare. Errors, when they do occur are flagged. Do a retry, if it still fails, the disc is bad! 28) Storing two copies is an AWFUL idea. 24) Page 23: What do you need this emulator for? (This is a repeat of question # 19) 25) We will be glad to answer your questions about the debugger, but you need to ask them. Stating a need for documentation is NOT the same as asking a question. Tell us the problem you are trying to solve and we will work out a way to solve it. For example, you talk about needing to integrate your "emulator" with RDBJAG. Are you aware of the ! feature of RDBJAG? This allows you to run a program without leaving RDBJAG, does this do what you need? 26) Item three in your list of required information is unclear. 27) If you had the source what you need ANY of the other stuff for? 28) The "whole idea of finding files" is NOT currently under review by Atari. What are you refering to? 29) Page 24: Why would you want to stop the CD before palying Cinepac? 30) Page 33: How do ghost keys happen? In general, a Keyboard Engine Seems like a lot of overkill! 31) Page 44: What do need Square Root for? What is the long forgotten algorithm? There is a phrase that I ahve been trying to instill into the developer support people: " If you are doing it in the 68000, you are doing it wrong". In general there is little to be gained in trying to keep the 68k working in parallel with the Blitter and GPU rendering, because the bus is simply not free for the 68k to do anything. The only time that using the 68k can be a performance win is when Blitter is idle and the GPU is not on the bus. This is, in general rare. Response to Response to Leonard's comments on the Kasumi Ninja II Spec. (I hope this does not go on much longer the titles will get REALLY silly) Thank you for fixing the numbering (Oops, I was in a hurry!). Where things are now clear I will not respond! 4) Who asked you to cover the error aspect. 5) I fail to see the importance of a "good speed comparison". I understand the convinence of coding first for the 68k. I just want to point out that there are very few cases where t is a good idea to run code on the 68k. 6) I did not asked why the IRQ stuff needed to be re-written. I asked what the IRQ stuff was, please answer this question. 8) Why will the DSP require more of the system bandwidth for KN II? Given that the DSP has its own access to CD data without going onto the bus I would think that it is likely that the DSP will require less bus access. Why is this incorrect? 10) What functionality do you need in the BIOS that you do not have. I have gotten no feddback from anyone on missing features. SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE! 14) Without a computation the point you are trying to make, fails. 16) When did you develop your LZSS system. If you had asked for it sooner we may have done one sooner? 19) We agree that a better CD emulator is possible. I am of the opinion that CD-R should be used. By using recordable CDs the emulation problems go away. 20) How can data be missed once it is memory? What would overwrite it? 33) Again, What are you refering to when you say the "whole idea of finding files"? I am not doing this because I enjoy reading dense technical material. I am doing this to increase the quality and improve the timeliness of Jaguar software development. Please answer the questions that remain. In particular: What CD IRQ stuff are you talking about? What BIOS features are missing? When did you develop your LZSS code? Response to Reply to: Response to Response to Leonard's comments on the Kasumi Ninja II Spec. (Now it is silly!) 5) I can not make the point strongly enough. Do not use the 68k. The Cinepak performance was improved by ~20% by halting the 68k. This may not be "important like air food or water" but nothing in a game is! This is no longer an issue. 6) I want the IRQ question resolved so that no work is done on things that are not needed. I look forward to Rob's response. 8) Just because you are doing more with the DSP does not mean that it will require more bandwidth. The DSP has its own bus, if the DSP activity is confined, or largely restricted, to this bus it will have little, if any, impact on the rest of the system! I consider this an open question. You seem unable to address this now. 10) Your reply is not appropriate to the demand "SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE". I take it that you have no comments at this time but reserve the right to sumbit them in the future. Fine, I reserve the right to ignore if they come too late. This issue is closed unless you try to re-open it. 16) Sorry, if you ask, I answer. I am simply requesting that you let us know what we are paying for. That way we don't pay to have two versions developed and then have one thrown away. This is no longer an issue. 19) No, burning a new CD is not needed every time you need to test your code. The CD will be holding data, the code will be in RAM. When debugging the code that will spool data off the disc, test seek delays, etc the data used in these test can be constant. This constant data would be on the CD. The code under development would be loaded into RAM and run there. To use your words the 'stuff' under development would not be on the CD only the data it is manipulating. This was never an issue, I was simply pointing out a different way to do things. I wish that you would consider that it might have some merit.

Another thing I found interesting was how they required their cartidge casings to be used and the other laundry list of strange things as requirements. Reading over the Kasumi Ninja II CD development exchange showed just how hateful everyone was by that point and it just seemed incredibly rude and unprofessional, even if they were right with disagreeing with developers.

And for Day 3! http://www.facebook.com/AtariJaguar64/ https://gleam.io/2u4Lm/atari-jaguar-12-days-of-christmas-day-3-nicks-jaguar-rotary-controller-and-skiing-and-snowboarding-cart

Heads up for the upcoming 2nd day: https://www.facebook.com/AtariJaguar64/ https://gleam.io/Fpdj4/atari-jaguar-12-days-of-christmas-day-2-joust-cart-and-jaguar-art-packt2k-cd Good Luck, Yellow Knight!

Click the link to enter from the FB page. Good luck guys! Posting from my phone, no desktop access today - scroll up for the link. Merry Christmas everyone!

I don't believe any of that really exists and none of it really grabs me as I've gotta see or have the desire to see it. There's really little left to be uncovered for the Jaguar worth uncovering imo and the things that are worth while will be incredibly difficult to obtain, if ever. The legwork to preserve what we have now and to actually document it properly is what's important so people don't continue to assume things don't exist or pay outrageous prices for things that have been around for 10+ years.

Winner Docs is just instructions or examples of how the system picks a winner. They use Random.org to pick truly at random and it goes into detail on how to avoid fake entries, etc. We'll announce the winner on the Jaguar Facebook page and the winner will receive an e-mail notifying them that they won. We only get to see the first name and first letter of their last name. So far only 120 entries with 2 hours to go and this one is just a test but real gift is given. Will draw tomorrow.

I really like how the randomly pick winner selection works:

Good suggestion actually, that way multiple people can't have a 1UP over others just for using twitter or facebook - with that said, people are e-mailed a link to share which if clicked on and used by someone else will allow them an additional entry and I haven't looked into a bypass or way around that so, we'll see. Thanks!

For anyone wanting to test enter without the need or requirement of using Facebook: https://gleam.io/Lfgpy/atari-jaguar-12-days-of-christmas-test Trying out this platform as it seems like the easiest and best way to randomly select a winner and not be 100% tied with Facebook. Open to feedback/opinions. Thanks!

Love your old PC setup! <3 As far as the PS1 version, my cousin had a PSX and brought it over one day. It was just blazing fast in comparison to the Jaguar's Doom and had music. Not so much jealous but could definitely see how much more powerful the PlayStation was in comparison. Not sure which version it was but it was a later version of Doom.

After learning just how cheap it is to make Jaguar carts as of recently (the price truly has plummeted) I feel there's no reason they actually needed to go the custom PCB route. Is it cool? Yes. Does it warrant the $75 price tag? Sorry, but never. Especially when you have Phase Zero demos made from B&C for $45 a pop and you know he's still making a profit from them. I mean no disrespect to them and kudos I guess for making a new game available for the Jaguar but it's not really a 'new' game in the sense that it's built from the ground up to take full advantage of the Jaguar's hardware. Had it been a completely new game written from scratch specifically for the Jaguar then I could possibly see the justification for price but realistically, I doubt I would ever pay that much for a Jaguar game, let alone a game that I truly want.

Strangely, I didn't really have expectations from Atari for the Jaguar. Then again, I was just a kid/teen and really enjoyed what I've come to learn and know about Atari at the time and thought it was awesome they were releasing a new console. Really, the naming was aggressive, it was a black 64-bit system that IBM was manufacturing and that's most of all I knew - that and knowing I wanted it! =D Never really dreamed or imagined I would get it and actually forgot about it for a few months until it was under the Christmas tree that year.

Thanks LD! No offense taken, I actually laughed out loud =D - but yeah, the angle was weird and it does look like her leg is cut off but I assure you it's there... The background is part of the rendering but is just space filler as this is just more for space filler for testing characters to render much quicker in than an entire scene. Time to render the above image: 6 Minutes Time to render the image below: 35 Minutes (downsized from 1280 x 768 resolution) For further comparison sake, with both scene and character is about 1 hour and 12 minutes then downsized:

Toying around with some more test renders and mixing up some different characters - should be easy enough to allow each character to have multiple outfits and scenes chosen at random by the Jaguar: Anyone feel like playing poker? I've got 12 unique scenes laid out plus your typical stuff like hotel and dorm rooms. I've done a few animation renderings for the possible Cinepak cutscenes and love the hair movement but haven't done anything completely custom outside of a test animation render. Will post something when I have something fun to show in that regard but don't expect that to be anytime soon as I've got background music to work on as well.