Atari 2600+ My experiences and helpful information

[Cryptocoffee13]

5 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

I responded on Twitter, but will here as well for the good of the order. I had the same issue but found that it was recognizing the device as an Evercade handheld - which I also have. Apparently they use the same chipset, so Windows thinks the 2600+ is an Evercade. Once I realized that, I opened that device and followed the rest of the steps. Worked fine. Hope that is helpful!

I re-tried it, and it worked, at least it appears that it did. I have not tried it yet. 

[CrossBow]

Check it out folks! There is some really cool new stuff coming to the 2600+. For those not aware, I'm testing separate FW from what everyone else is testing that has some experimental stuff on it. Mostly 7800 centric in nature and this is one that I was just advised to test and confirm. 

 

 

If you weren't aware, Tower Toppler usually looks like a striped mess of graphics on anything higher than composite video output. That is because the games graphics rely on the use of NTSC artifacting to make the graphics and colors look the way they did back in the day. But once you go with s-video of above, then the artifacting effect is lost and you see the graphics as they were actually programmed but not as they were intended to be seen. And it isn't pretty. Well, the new FW currently loaded on my 2600+ features a new test composite filter for Tower Toppler to siumlate the artifacting effect. It isn't 100% and I'm not sure how much more work will be done on it, but this is far far better than it what it looks like right now to everyone else on the 2600+ and at least makes it possible to know what you are looking at. 

 

[sramirez2008]

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

[Sabertooth]

That's a really cool addition @CrossBow. Thanks for sharing! It's fantastic that Plaion/Atari are working with the community techies to improve emulation over all. Focusing on a single game goes beyond my expectations.

Any progress on 7800 Rampage or Double Dragon in your build? My 7800 Klax (from CPUWIZ about a decade ago) doesn't work, but I've seen others whose carts do work.

[CrossBow]

14 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

That's a really cool addition @CrossBow. Thanks for sharing! It's fantastic that Plaion/Atari are working with the community techies to improve emulation over all. Focusing on a single game goes beyond my expectations.

Any progress on 7800 Rampage or Double Dragon in your build? My 7800 Klax (from CPUWIZ about a decade ago) doesn't work, but I've seen others whose carts do work.

Yes and no on the Rampage Double Dragon question.

One of the changes that my FW has is that it provides very specific information from the Dumper side of things on what it actually detects. Comparing the results of my cartridges with those of others has revealed something that is a bit interesting although not quite sure why. So Double Dragon and Rampage were apparently released in multiple revisions that aren't well documented. What is more strange is that the code of the games themselves isn't really different. But what is different is the bank switching schemes used and apparently other changes on the hardware level of the cartridges themselves appear to be confusing the dumper. So as a result I don't just provide a pass/fail on my testing. I also have to provide a bunch of other data that is shown from the system when I activate a specific controller combo. So hopefully that data can be used to get those games working.

Klax is another one I've been testing. I don't own the actual cartridge as honestly, Klax isn't my style of game that I enjoy that much. But I was provided ROM images of the two main ones out there. The one that CPU made is basically the prototype as it was found as it happens to work on actual 7800 consoles. But it seems the header information for it isn't quite right and so the 'fixed' version that was released later on does work on the 2600+. Not sure if they will work around that on the 2600+ since it is sort of a special case and again, the same ROM with corrected header info in it, does work as expected.

Another thing I've been testing is more modern home brew releases. But a small snag has been found between the ROM of the final games and what is actually on the carts. That small snag is the HOKEY itself. Most of the modern brews are working with updated FW on the 7800 but those games with HOKEYs in them vs actual POKEYs aren't playing the Pokey audio or in some cases, failing to load up. Last night with revised FW I was finally able to get Keystone Koppers to come up and work with full Pokey audio. So this is a good step towards hopefully getting more of those games working. Again, everything I've been testing with is actually slightly older FW than what everyone has been given access too. But that is because the FW I'm working with and being provided is just to test stuff on the 7800 side of things so that it can eventually be implemented into a much more robust FW update in the future. As an example, the 2600 games that have been corrected and are working with the beta 1.1FW that everyone else has been loading up, do NOT work for me on my FW because those changes weren't or aren't being implemented. Again, my testing focus is on the 7800 side.

 

Edited January 5 by CrossBow

[sramirez2008]

4 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

My 7800 Klax (from CPUWIZ about a decade ago) doesn't work, but I've seen others whose carts do work.

FWIW, I purchased my copy of Klax from Good Deal Games and it works on the 2600+.

Edited January 5 by sramirez2008

[CrossBow]

4 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

FWIW, I purchased my copy of Klax from Good Deal Games and it works on the 2600+.

Yeah I think good deal is using the fixed version of the prototype.

[7800 Pro Gamer]

Thanks for the tip on the new 2600+ firmware.  I should've looked before I did that stream but I'm glad to have it now.  So is there going to be an official firmware eventually because that's 2 betas right?  Or just marginal improvements to a single beta?

[CrossBow]

1 hour ago, 7800 Pro Gamer said:

Thanks for the tip on the new 2600+ firmware.  I should've looked before I did that stream but I'm glad to have it now.  So is there going to be an official firmware eventually because that's 2 betas right?  Or just marginal improvements to a single beta?

That I don't know. I would assume that at some point, Atari will call it good and come up with an easier way for folks to update the console on their own that doesn't require having to use specific software, only work on Windows, etc... 

Speaking of FW, I was sent a new one to test Friday that I need to get loaded up today and give a spin. One thing I didn't mention in your stream, is that even with the beta FW that has been released, I was getting some very odd controller responses while playing Double Dragon. Things like movements suddenly speeding up acting like it was suddenly responding to commands I'd given a second or two earlier now executing in quick speed. Also issues with my movements not seeming to work right.

Apparently no one else really reported this, but I found out that the games running on the 2600+ with the current beta FW are only running at 30fps. That is why some complaints about graphics missing etc... is occurring is due to this limitation of the 2600+. But the new FW I was sent apparently ups the gameplay to 60fps again so...yeah I need to give it a spin.

[sramirez2008]

18 minutes ago, CrossBow said:

Speaking of FW, I was sent a new one to test Friday that I need to get loaded up today and give a spin.

They have released the experimental FW. It’s the same one that a was provided earlier to test Juno First with. 
 

Here’s the thread: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/361600-experimental-2600-firmware/

[CrossBow]

18 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said:

They have released the experimental FW. It’s the same one that a was provided earlier to test Juno First with. 
 

Here’s the thread: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/361600-experimental-2600-firmware/

Hmm... I see that and yes it is the same labeled revision I was sent on Friday to test privately. Sigh... I simply haven't time to just stop other plans to devote to these in as timely a manner as I guess they need then.

 

[sramirez2008]

41 minutes ago, CrossBow said:

Sigh... I simply haven't time to just stop other plans to devote to these in as timely a manner as I guess they need then.

Don’t worry about it. I’m testing as I find time as well. Btw, Tac Scan works (w/Paddles in left port) now. 

[CrossBow]

In any event, I need to pull the 2600+ out of the box  to update it. I've honestly not needed it since I did the cartridge port replacement on it and stopped testing with the last batch of FW updates they were sending me to test.

My 7800 just...'works' you know? LOL!

 

[CrossBow]

Okay, So I need someone else that also has a physical cart of 7800 Double Dragon to test something for me. Previously with the builds we had, while DD was working, I had controller input issues happening near the beginning when the 2 William's enemies both show up. this newer update corrects for this now. But another issue I noticed even before then is still  happening and I can't figure it out.

The issue is ladders. Specifically the first two you come across about midway through the first level. Where the Beetle bug poster is? Pretty sure on the actual 7800 I can climb that first ladder without any issue as soon as it appears on the screen. But on the 2600+ my character will NOT climb this ladder no matter what? He will climb the second one..but not until the Abobo and other enemy are on the screen and after that first ladder has been scrolled off screen? 

I'm so dang rusty on this game that I've not been able to get past the 2nd level yet to see if it happens anywhere else. But I know this isn't how those two ladders work on my actual console.

@sramirez2008 or anyone else able to test this for me so I know I'm not going crazy? (at least before I should be...)

 

[sramirez2008]

30 minutes ago, CrossBow said:

@sramirez2008 or anyone else able to test this for me so I know I'm not going crazy? (at least before I should be...)

I’d love to, but I don’t have this on cart.

[Sabertooth]

@CrossBow - I can look at it today. I just downloaded the experimental firmware and have DD 7800.

[7800 Pro Gamer]

@CrossBow I can help test too if you need.  I updated yesterday.  I can test in about an hour and report back...

[7800 Pro Gamer]

So what's weird is I can't climb up any ladder on 2600+ at the Volkswagen sign no matter when I try to initiate it. But on 7800 I can go up and down whenever I want. 

But is there an even knewer firmware than what you told me about @CrossBow?

Edit 

Ok I downloaded the firmware from the above post and still the same issues.  I'm still playing through but it feels like enemies are spawning too soon to me. But I'd have to go back and verify on real hardware or a 7800 I guess

Edited February 19 by 7800 Pro Gamer

[CrossBow]

2 hours ago, 7800 Pro Gamer said:

So what's weird is I can't climb up any ladder on 2600+ at the Volkswagen sign no matter when I try to initiate it. But on 7800 I can go up and down whenever I want. 

But is there an even knewer firmware than what you told me about @CrossBow?

Edit 

Ok I downloaded the firmware from the above post and still the same issues.  I'm still playing through but it feels like enemies are spawning too soon to me. But I'd have to go back and verify on real hardware or a 7800 I guess

No the firmware labeled as experimental is even newer than the one I was telling you about. It was just released over the weekend. So I'm glad I'm not completely crazy then on the Beetle bug poster screen with the ladders. I know you can climb them normally as soon as they appear and I normally climb it to trick the Linda in going up the ladder, hit her to take the whip and then use it again her and the Williams enemy. I then usually walk over along the top to get the Abobo and other enemy on the screen. Have him climb the ladder with his bat, take him out with the whip, then grab the bat from the top and drop down with it to take out the Abobo. But as we aren't able to climb the ladders here, none of that is possible.

I've not noticed if the enemies are going out sooner than usual, but I have noticed the timer is running too fast. I've yet to even beat level 1 without the timer running out of me and usually that timer isn't even a blip in my thought when playing this game because it was never an issue. So either the enemies are taking a lot longer to take down than normal, or the timer is running faster.

 

[CrossBow]

14 hours ago, 7800 Pro Gamer said:

So what's weird is I can't climb up any ladder on 2600+ at the Volkswagen sign no matter when I try to initiate it. But on 7800 I can go up and down whenever I want. 

But is there an even knewer firmware than what you told me about @CrossBow?

Edit 

Ok I downloaded the firmware from the above post and still the same issues.  I'm still playing through but it feels like enemies are spawning too soon to me. But I'd have to go back and verify on real hardware or a 7800 I guess

Have you messed around with this issue anymore? Can you confirm that it is possible on the actual 7800 console to do this etc? I'm trying to get as much info about this odd ladder issue as I can to send over to Mike an Chris to see if they can figure it out.

 

[7800 Pro Gamer]

It's possible to climb up the ladders whenever I want on the 7800.  I climbed the first ladder as soon as I possibly could I then scrolled forward tiny bit and climbed it again.  Then I climbed the 2nd one several different times. 

On the 2600+ I can't climb the first ladder at all and I could eventually climb the second one but only after all the enemies were defeated.  But outside of that I couldn't climb them at all.

[CrossBow]

20 hours ago, 7800 Pro Gamer said:

It's possible to climb up the ladders whenever I want on the 7800.  I climbed the first ladder as soon as I possibly could I then scrolled forward tiny bit and climbed it again.  Then I climbed the 2nd one several different times. 

On the 2600+ I can't climb the first ladder at all and I could eventually climb the second one but only after all the enemies were defeated.  But outside of that I couldn't climb them at all.

So this is interesting but I've not been able to test this yet. Apparently the main emulator that is advised for testing games is A7800. However, on that emulator, it isn't possible to climb the ladders either?! @7800 Pro Gamer do you have A7800 setup on your computer somewhere or possibly Vinnie and able to test the Double Dragon rom and see if ladders aren't able to be climbed in that emulator either?

 

[7800 Pro Gamer]

I don't have that set up. I can try when I get some free time but I've been pretty busy lately so idk when that will be.  I've never been that good with emulators but if it's download and play I'll try.  I'll ask if Vinnie has it

[CrossBow]

1 hour ago, 7800 Pro Gamer said:

I don't have that set up. I can try when I get some free time but I've been pretty busy lately so idk when that will be.  I've never been that good with emulators but if it's download and play I'll try.  I'll ask if Vinnie has it

A7800 isn't the easiest to use one no. But I should be able to give this a try myself as I have the emu already setup on my PC and have the ROM for the game. Just never really liked trying to play it with keyboard controls so it isn't one I've likely tested.

 

[CrossBow]

Just confirmed that the exact same thing happens in the A7800 emulator using the AB ROM version of the game. The OM version doesn't even load up in emulators. But yeah...ladders can't be climbed until the last two enemies at the end of that section are defeated first and just before moving over to the final enemy and Abobo boss for level 1. Also, I was using elbow punches and reverse jump kicks to take the enemies out quickly as possible and by the time I got to the Abobo, I was down to only 9 left on the timer?! So the timer is moving way too quickly as if you are trying to use normal attacks and the like, you aren't going to get through even level 1 without loosing a life due to the timer. Again, both the non working ladders and the fast timer happen on the 2600+ on the latest FW and also in the A7800 emulator.