CrossBow
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Posts posted by CrossBow
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2 hours ago, Amis said:
All good and glad you not a peak at the atari side of the bbs world.. 90's IBM set up wasn't that procomm or something for the ANSI terminal? Well most people use SyncTerm today as its easy quick and emulates Atascii, Petscii, ANSI, etc. on Mac or Windows..
Might have been Procomm. Again, I can't recall exactly. Once cable modem service was available to me, I haven't touched dial up or BBS sites since LOL!
I do remember Roboterm for a bit as it had a hi res EGA terminal and character graphics it could use on sites that supported it.
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1 hour ago, Amis said:
Hey Guys - not to worry the BBS was not down or crashed.. Might have just been busy as its a single user at a time.. I do have busy messages on each of the BBS's but for some reason the emulators don't alway pick it up... Also, yeah we see about 400 users a month and the user log can be pretty big for 30 days.. You can always use CNTR S or X to break just like the old days on a text file..
As I said, I didn't do it maliciously. I'm NOT actually versed much at all on Atari 8-bit computers as I never had one growing up and didn't know anyone that did back then. I grew up specifically on MS-DOS on IBM compatibles only and so that is all I really know and remember. We have a dedicated break function on the keyboard but wasn't aware of the Atari equivalent else I would have tried that.
So yeah for me, all the stuff I did in BBS land back in the early 90s was on my IBM setup using some specific ANSI Terminal I had that I really liked. I have NO idea what it was I used back then though LOL!
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18 minutes ago, RickR said:
Southern Amis BBS was down last night ("Connection timed out"), but I will try again as time permits.
I want to thank you @Amis. For providing the information and giving me the little push I needed to try this out finally. It's quite a trip back to memory lane!That...might have been my fault actually....
You see I was checking things out on their menus and told it to show me the log for recent logins. But it after about 5min of watching it scroll across and no way to stop it I just disconnected. My guess, is that I've found a small bug in that routine that causes it to repeat the log over and over and therefore causes an infinite loop on the server. That is why I think it wasn't responding is because it was still looping that list and never actually disconnected from me when I dropped off.
But...that is only a guess.
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5 hours ago, RickR said:
Right! I can tell you that I've downsized this area a LOT. Gemini, heavy sixers (both orig and Sears), a Sears super video arcade, intellivision and colecovision add-on modules...all have been sold.
The ones I've kept all either have huge sentimental value or I use them a lot.
Not me...LOL. I've got at least a half dozen different 2600 systems scattered around the house...yes scattered in that I know I have a vader and h6 in one room, a 4 switch in unknown condition in a close in that same room with some games. A Sears h6 that works in the telegames branded storage case in one part of the game room that is never used, another 2600 4 switch that is CIB and worked when I last checked it, plus the Jr I've got up in the lab, and pretty sure there is another Atari h6 in a bin by itself in the close in the game room also. That is just what I remember off the top of my head.
I'm almost as bad in the Intellivision side of things. I've got fully working Tandyvision, Sylvania GTE model, Intellivision II, and not one, but two Sears Super Arcades. I've got another Sears unit that works but needs controllers and lots of TLC cleanup that is in the parts section along with an original 2609 that is strictly a parts unit.
I've also got at least 4 5200 consoles... all 4 port units and working.
I've got a spare or two of each console I play and collect for with the exception of my SMS, TurboDUO and Jag. Although I do have a Core Grafx II and US TG-16 consoles I can play games on.
I do need to downsize when I think about it.
- RickR and DegasElite
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I've got a junior model that someone gave me years ago. It is up in the lab area and works as far as I remember but I have no love for the Jr model personally. At the time it was released, I had my 7800 and felt overall it was a better looking design over the new 2600 look. And... I guess to me the 2600 will always be that larger system with the big switches and woodgrain. When I think Atari 2600, that is what I have in my mind instantly is the 4 switch woody that I grew up with in the early 80s. I had a friend of mine that bought that 'Under 50 bucks' Jr model and newer released games and sure we had fun on it still. But again, It just isn't iconic to me in the way the other models are.
Now....as in back then... I just use my 7800 for all of my 2600/7800 gaming needs.
- RickR, Sabertooth and MaximumRD
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2 hours ago, RickR said:
And thanks for mentioning Q2-RTX. I forgot about that. I just tried it and it works just fine for me. How interesting, I was just playing Q2 on my "retro PC" laptop. Like Portal, this one is a very nice graphical update to an old favorite.
Well, I didn't specify in what way Q2 RTX didn't work. It would work, until I got to that first elevator on the first map. Once that elevator would change to the next part of the map, the game would dump me back to the desktop and Windows would show some sort of odd hardware driver error related to some RTX commands that I assume Q2 was doing. So when I think of it, I will give that another shot.
I also need to specify on the DLSS comment. You have a few preset modes when using DLSS. They are essentially Performance, Balanced, and Quality. As the names might imply the performance mode gives you more frames at the expense of nicer looking and more realistic downsample/upsampling effects. Balance is the middle road with quality being the best it can look with DLSS enabled.
On Portal RTX, all of these modes look the same graphically to me (I'm using 1080P btw for this game in RTX), but each does provide a performance hit as I would expect. I also found that even more performance is lost when using the non DLSS RTX options, but those too, look basically the same to me. So I've kept it at performance and 1080P for now. Q2 RTX I'm able to use the quality option at 1080P or balanced type mode at 1440p and still average nearly 40fps.
So to me, Q2 RTX looks better with the RTX upgrade over portal RTX and performs better as well. But, portal isn't a game requiring fast reflexes or crazy high frame rates so it is quite playable on the options I've got set. I just wish it looked more impressive like the trailer for it an some screenshots I've seen. My guess is those were done with the new DLSS 3 mode that is only supported on the newer 4000 series cards. I believe DLSS and DLSS 2 is as far as the 2000/3000 series are able to go.
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So I did download this and give it a spin the other night. I had to first update my vid drivers in order to get it to work and I didn't care for that much. See, the last game that nVidia worked with to show off some RTX goodness like this was Quake II RTX. Problem is about a year or so later, the newest drivers started to break that game from working anymore on my 2070 Super. I had to downgrade the drivers to get it working stable again. So yeah, not wild about having to update them to test this. I've not tested Quake II to see if it still works or not but I will.
So... my thoughts on Portal RTX thus far? Mixed honestly...
I can see where they were going with this but unlike the Quake II RTX it feels more like a mod add-on than a complete redo of the game graphically. Some elements are nice, but I really don't see that huge a change on this game in RTX vs normal game as much as the change was with Quake II RTX.
On my 2070 super I used the recommended settings and changes by using the Alt-X combo to bring up the additional graphical options and setting them to what they recommended.
One thing I will say about DLSS is that at least for me on my 2070, it does make a difference, but the different modes do NOT look that different to my eyes and that really surprises me as well. Then again, I've had a feeling that the 2070 series have some flaws in their designs that might prevent the RTX from working as well as it should and has been demonstrated. I would like to see some screen caps from your setup to see it looks and what settings you are using and then compare with mine to give some examples.
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The main concern with replacing the switches is more about using too much heat or leaving the iron on the legs for too long as it could start to melt the plastic inside the switches internally. As for the solder, you only need enough to make a nice little volcano like look on the bottom and although there are 4 pins on each switch. They are a pair that are attached so as long as one of the pins is attached to the trace needed for the switch signal to go through, you are good.
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The switches are a good beginner project because it is all through hole and you don't have to worry about aligning them up in any particular way because they will only fit in place really in one way. You don't even have to remove the RF shielding to replace them out although it would be a little squeeze to work around them.
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On 12/10/2022 at 10:29 AM, DegasElite said:
This is an interesting topic. I am sure a lot of A7800 motherboards are like this. Well, fortunately, it's repairable. That's a good thing.
Oh for sure this is something I've had to do quite often. I always test out the panel switches when working on 7800s. If they test out fine during testing, I usually leave them be. But if even one of them is flaky I will suggest to the owners to go ahead and swap them all out. It isn't that big a deal or expense to do so and it is one less issue to likely have to worry about in the future.
The switches on this one were working quite well and I hadn't planned to replace them out originally. But the rest of the board ha obvious signs of flux splash all over as even some of the main ICs had spots of old flux dried up on them. I cleaned all of that off and didn't think much of it. Wasn't until the power LED was requested to be swapped out for a different color that I saw what my initial cleaning had missed and couldn't get to and decided to look under the power switch to get an idea. Again, I'm glad I did as it really would have only been a matter of time.
The CPU had to be swapped out on that 7800 also and that was actually quite clean under it on the board so my guess is that whatever happened, most of it seem to collect near the front edge of the board.
- RickR and DegasElite
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8 minutes ago, RickR said:
What do you use to get all the extra flux off the board?
In the case of this one, it was a lot of q-tips an 99.9% IPA. What you don't see and I didn't mention is that the entire board on this 7800 was coated pretty badly with old flux. There were spots of splash from flux in the past. So prior to removing the switches, I actually sprayed the board down liberally with flux remover. But then again I was curious to see the switches because I notice the massive flux buildup under the power LED and I'm glad I did.
I might have missed it or not checked if the owner hadn't requested a different color power LED. But given how much flux was on the board overall prior to my cleaning it, I should have known to check anyway.
- DegasElite, RickR and Justin
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This is a topic I would usually reserve as a blog post. But it is pretty important one that effects many many 7800 consoles over their lifetime. So lets talk about it...
The main issue that comes up with the 7800 panel buttons is that over time, they start to fail in that they won't always register a press. The power button and reset seem to be the most problematic and that is likely due to them being used the most. So that is the problem but what is the cause?
Well here is the cause...
The above pictures are the remains and effects of left over flux from the factory when the consoles were manufactured. This one happens to be one of the worst I've seen, but it is crazy common how much I've seen similar. The extra flux is hiding under the switches and over time it can cause corrosion and gunk to build up around the switches and the vias they are attached to. This looks pretty nasty and the switches don't fair any better...
These are the original switches that were removed from the 7800. I did NOT add any additional flux when I removed them. The gunk and wet sheen you seen is the left over flux that has been left for nearly 40 years under those switches. This old flux finds its way into the switches internally and causes them to corrode. As a result, the switches start to loose their contact ability inside them due to this corrosion.
I've heard of folks taking the switches apart to clean them and then use some super glue to put them back together. But honestly for the time that takes, and as cheap as the switches cost. I don't mess with that, an instead I replace them out whenever I find this. Now to be fair these switches were actually still working properly. But due to other massive amounts of flux that was left over on other parts of the main board, I decided to remove a few to look them over for inspection and once I saw this, I didn't want to take any chances in the future and decided to clean up the mess on the boards and install new higher quality switches.
You can get OEM style replacements from Console5.com inexpensively here and they would likely serve you well for many years to come:
https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html
The switches I tend to order and use cost 2x more each, but they are a much better quality switch that is rated for 1million cycles of use. That means, the switches you see above are likely to outlive us all. The switches I order I get are made by Alps and use silver contacts internally vs the brass or alum that is likely used in cheaper switches. Because I've found the Alps switches cloned with much crappier versions that look just like them, I only order them from Mouser to be sure I'm getting legit swtiches.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/SKHCBFA010?qs=4aVxpR%2FL9VKjnfNtzVhXNg%3D%3D
So if you find your 7800 panel buttons not working as good as they should. Just replace them out or find someone you trust that is good with a soldering iron to do it for you.
- DegasElite, RickR and Justin
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I wanted the more traditional looking version of this, but at the time I ordered this one, they didn't have the original grey and chrome original looking ones available, and I had NO idea that they would even re-release the original looking version as they did for their Black Friday sale...sigh.
But, that said, the color scheme might grow on me and it really does sound amazing! It is replacing the Bose Sondlink Mini II that I'd been using for the past few years on my desk at work.
- socrates63, TrekMD, Jinroh and 1 other
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You do know that the 5100 is the same width and only looks smaller because they did away with the controller storage section in the back. From that, it allowed them to lower the case shell height. But honestly that design isn't that much much smaller honestly. I've see this in person at the NVGM in Ft. Worth TX.
But I have just noticed that it still seemed to require the dual 7805 voltage regulators. Look at those monster heatsinks they have on either side of the pcb? Apparently it must have gotten quite warm too because they added a lot more venting to the case shell for this prototype. The original sinks on the 5200 aren't nearly that large and they don't need to be because why they do get hot, they don't get as hot as say the 7800s regulator does for instance.
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7 minutes ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:
Something I just thought about...bare with me. I wonder if there could be a way to get the 5200 to accept the thumbstick technology that either Dreamcast or the N64 used? The N64 used infrared instead of potentiometers and the Dreamcast used some kind of magnetic setup.
Not sure on that...but someone was making or might have made adapters that allowed the use of PS2 controllers on the 5200. So if that was possible, then I'm sure something using the DC or N64 analog is also likely possible. But that is way above my pay grade.
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There is another AA member that has designed a replacement 5200 controller in the original style design aesthetic that uses a self centering stick. But I don't believe any of them have gone on sale yet or what the current status of that project might be?
Only thing he did different in the layout was to put the start, pause, and reset buttons on the bottom end of the controller below the keypad section allowing him to raise the joystick up further. But aside from that, it looked to be about the same size and close shape of the originals.
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4 minutes ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:
I, personally, would like to see the prototype self-centering joystick get a public release. Now that would be cool to see. But I doubt the 500 ohm potentiometers the 5200 uses in the controllers exist anymore.
I've looked around my local radio/electronics hobby shop here and they have a spot on their peg board for some, but haven't had any in stock for a few years now. Even when they did have them, they were huge. Not just the shaft on them which I think was about 2inches long, but the overall body of the trimmer pot was way too large to fit inside the 5200 controller housing.
I think about the only option we can hope for is that someone creates a kit that allow for modern trimmers to be used that drop into place of the original but provide signals to the console that mimic the originals readings. Like using a 1k trimmer or something and using some logic to halve the readings from it back to the 5200 logic for instance. There is enough space inside the 5200 controller for a small PCB with such logic to be fitted inside I think.
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33 minutes ago, - Ω - said:
Another 5200 things that would be cool:
1) A library of 3D printed repair parts. Some parts have gotten brittle with age, being able to replace them would be so awesome.
2) New parts, like support the UAV modification on the back.
3) Maybe even an exact replica of the cartridge case.
Well, some of these items exist already are possibly being looked into.
1. - the biggest issue with this is the size of the parts themselves. The controller storage lid and front facia are large single pieces of plastic. So it would likely take a commercial grade type 3D printer that is large enough to make these pieces. I've also been told that larger pieces that are also pretty flat like the ones needed here, will warp quite a bit during the printing process which, also complicates things.
My thoughts on possible solutions for this has been to simply have someone make a good quality silicone mold and perhaps make resin casting replacements? But that is beyond my skill set.
2. There was another member over at AtariAge that actually did create replacement back expansion covers with holes already milled for the RCA jacks. However, he didn't seem convinced that enough space could be done to have all three RCAs and the s-video. I of course know this isn't true because I actually hand drill spaces on these covers already and have for years that allow for the RCA jacks and s-video to all fit. It is tight I won't deny that, but it can be done. I don't know what became of that project though. One thing I did suggest that was really only possible with 3D printing was that the s-video jack could be made with the flat side already in place to better hold the s-video jack and help prevent slipping and turning.
3. Again, recently over at AtariAge, someone did post a 3D printed 5200 cartridge shell. It wasn't an exact copy of the Atari made ones though and was more of a copy of the smoother shell design without dust cover similar to what the game Meteorites cartridge looks like.
Again, with all the ridges and detail on the 5200 Atari cartridge cases, it might be a bit too difficult to do with a 3D printer and likely require an actual injection mold to have to be made. I now that recently Albert at AtariAge has been looking into this for some time and I believe he now has replacement cartridge shells for the 2600 and 7800 now that are injection molded.
I do have something new to share about the 5200 though!!! Evie over at Backbit.io has created a lot of cool products for the retro gaming community. One of her projects is the Backbit Pro flash cartridge. Now, the neat thing about this cartrige is that it is designed for multiple consoles and computers?! The main body of the cartridge contains the brains and SD card slot. But the end you plug into the console is done with an IDE type male connector on it and that allows the cartrige to use different PCB ends that plug into the cartridge allowing the flash cart to work on different kinds of systems. I have the cartridge and have the adapters to use it on the Intellivision and Vic-20. But... she did tell me that she is now designing a 5200 adapter for it?! So that would provide another means to have a flash cart for the 5200. Not sure it would have all the features that the AtariMax Ultimate SD cart can do, but it is still a nice additional option once released. Here latest firmware already pretty much has all the features needed to support the Intellivision games now including ECS bankswitching. While I haven't tested it myself fully yet, the cart can also be a RAM expander for my Vic-20. So..yeah it is a very versatile device. And having a 5200 adapter for it would be most welcome!
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7 hours ago, RickR said:
I say yes, and this reminds me....I think I may need a bit of help with one in my spares box. It has a bad power switch and in fact the board around the power switch looks damaged. Do you think it's possible to wire a button right into whatever flip-flop circuit turns the 5200 on/off?
Possibly although the 5200 uses an odd 3 prong switch but I've never really tried to sus it out too much. I did manage to take one apart once and clean it I think? That said, I've likely got a switch or two from my donor boards I could remove if you need one.
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Well, I did find out that the palette issues with it on NTSC consoles is a well known issue and has been for years. But apparently due to the fact that most of the demoscene stuff and quite a lot of the more recent homebrews all require the use of PAL 8-bits, it was never considered a priority to create a core for the VBXE with NTSC palettes on it. Apparently if you have one of the U1MB upgrade boards in place, they did include an option on it to apparently program a new palette file to compensate but I hadn't really planned on getting one of those for as little as I play on my 130xe.
As for testing of games, I've done quite a few lately mainly on the 7800 side of things. But that is largely in part because I have a Dragon Fly cartridge and it supports a crazy amount of different bank schemes for different games along with the added hardware in it to play covox, dual pokey, and FM music. I don't know what testing would be possible on my 130xe as I'm limited to just my FujiNet cart that I mainly use and I have an UnoCart for the 8-bit that is much faster at loading games, but also more limited in what it supports.
I can understand the hesitation with letting folks test your games and programs. I don't know how feasible it is, but I would think it a good idea to put an ID code of some sort embedded within the coding so that if it were to be leaked out in the open, it would at least be possible to know who provided that initial leak or obviously was careless in who might have had access to their stuff and let it get slipped.
Your Desktop / Favorite wallpapers etc.
in Off Topic
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@MaximumRD I have to ask, where are you finding/getting all of these? Many of them are ones I wouldn't mind having in some random rotation on my system but I never seem able to find any that I really like. I've been using an old Bing space related theme that carried over from my older win10 install that still works when I upgraded to win11. But yeah some of those are easily ones I'd like and you have so many of them.
Are they just random from some URL that it grabs from daily or are these pics you actually have stored away somewhere in your computers?