Would there be a market that would buy a possible Jaguar+ system?

[Chubbz]

The 2600+ is proving to be a successful product for ATARI.

With the features that have been added to BigPEmu, such as modern V.R, local and online multiplayer, native upscaling, rock solid compatibilty with all software, with Lynx connectivity and Jaguar Voice Modem funtionality rumoured to be added, a modern cart/C.D player would be a superb modern solution for fans of this rare, and expensive console.

A $200 price would be acceptable, packaged with a reimagined and improved Jaguar controller that retains the O.G controllers features such as the keypad so the O.G keypad overlays can be used, improves the d-pad and button layout, is compatible with O.G Jaguar hardware, and reduces the overall size of the O.G controller.

Would the community buy a Jaguar+ if it had these features, and are there any other features the community would like to see for a theoretical Jaguar+ system?

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Chubbz

[RickR]

I would!  I paid more than that for the Jaguar GameDrive.  I'd be super happy to get a Jaguar+ if they ever go that route

 

[Justin]

If they decided to go that route, they would have to support it with games, both in terms of cartridges (Jaguar multicart?) and new releases. One major reason there is a market to support the 2600+ is because there are still so many cartridges floating around, many at reasonable prices. That's not the case with the Jaguar as it sold in minuscule numbers as compared to what the 2600 did. Also, the 2600 was so huge at the time, such an icon, that much of the public generally remembers the 2600, and they have been reminded of it every time they go to Walmart for the past 20 years and see the Flashback systems. Fewer people remember the Jaguar.

I'm happy that Atari has included the Jaguar in the Atari 50th Anniversary releases and that it has not been totally forgotten or overlooked.

I think what there might be a market for is a 4/5 scale Atari Lynx II loaded with Lynx games... along with Jaguar, 2600, 7800, you name it. The problem there is how much of the Lynx library does Atari still hold the rights to publish?

[Justin]

I've also said for some time that I believe there's a market for an Atari 8-Bit Computer device that could also play Atari 5200 games, as they are so similar. Envision a 4/5 scale Atari XE Game System with detachable keyboard and full support for original games and controllers. Except it would have TWO cartridge bays on the top (similar to what Retron does) - one to play Atari 8-Bit Computer cartridges, and the other to play Atari 5200 cartridges. The Atari XE design would lend itself perfectly to this.

[alucardx]

I think it would be great to have the option. The Jaguar community is fairly strong and would likely support something like that. I'd love to see it capable of running in three modes:

Mode 0 being standard Jaguar as released to the market in 1993, hardware bugs and all. This makes it compatible with all of the currently released software.

Mode 1 being Jaguar with all hardware bugs fixed and maybe a different processor replacing the 68k. Maybe a processor that shares the bus in 32bit instead of 16? This would allow programmers to enjoy creating games that really show off what the rest of the chips were capable of.

Mode 2 being a Jaguar II system as Atari might have released it.

[TrekMD]

I would support it but, as Justin says, it would need game library support as well.  It could be enhanced to do better 3D graphics also.

[Chubbz]

I think that there's many great homebrew games for the Jaguar already.

There are also many in development and the standard of these games is impressive.

There does seem to be a lot of interest in the Jaguar, but the prices for newcomers are just too expensive.

BigPEmu now exceeds the O.G hardware in terms of features.

Richard Whitehouse's BigPEmu post's get considerable attention.

I'm sure everyone has seen the latest version of BigPEmu v1.09.

Full online multiplayer (upto 8-players) for the Jaguar's many multi-player games would be perfect for a 2600+ style Jaguar cart/CD player.

It would also be a great way to preserve original hardware and support future game development.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Justin]

Remember that “a market for a Jaguar+” means it has to be worth Atari’s time to design, ship and sell that product. There has to be enough demand to sell enough of those units.

Homebrew is an extremely limited market, usually selling in the hundreds. Atari would need to expand the Jaguar’s library and make it available to the general public in a way that is affordable. They could license or purchase some of the homebrews, sure.

Ultimately a Jaguar+ would have to sell in sufficient numbers for Atari not to loose money, and for it to be worth their time.

[Chubbz]

My Arcade has added a micro S.D slot which to the GameStation Pro, which is an impressive product covered by GenX Gamer on his YouTube channel recently.

This has allowed him to load roms for a multitude of systems and arcades with no hacking required.

I'm hoping that ATARI adds this to the 2600+, as it would be an excellent solution to the s.d reader compatibilty issues.

This would also be great for a Jaguar based + system, and would allow developers to release digital boxed versions of their games to gamers.

 

[alucardx]

14 hours ago, Justin said:

Remember that “a market for a Jaguar+” means it has to be worth Atari’s time to design, ship and sell that product. There has to be enough demand to sell enough of those units.

Homebrew is an extremely limited market, usually selling in the hundreds. Atari would need to expand the Jaguar’s library and make it available to the general public in a way that is affordable. They could license or purchase some of the homebrews, sure.

Ultimately a Jaguar+ would have to sell in sufficient numbers for Atari not to loose money, and for it to be worth their time.

I guess in those terms that's a tough question. Look at how the PS1 mini did in market. It's hard to say what is "worth Atari's time" in that regard.

I'm not sure what method they'd use to produce such a chipset and especially if it had all the modes I talked about. That will determine a lot of cost. If they did produce the console this would give them another avenue for more retro style games like Mr. Run and Jump to be sold as well as another avenue for developers to find their way into the market. The gateway would be developing the game for the Jag with an opportunity for a wider sales market through other systems with a more modern and enhanced version of their Jag title.

Perhaps a cheap solution would be to offer some packaged form of general purpose hardware running BigPemu and offer BigPemu features in the modes I talked about.

[nosweargamer]

Although I'd be game, I don't think the demand is strong enough for all it would take to make a Jaguar+. A limited run Jaguar mini at premium price is more likely, but even that seems unlikely, since it was only recently we saw Jaguar games re-released on Atari 50. Even Sega said they wouldn't do a Dreamcast mini due to the cost and perceived lack of demand, and that's a console that far outsold the Jaguar. 

I think the best hope for Jaguar fans is that games continue to be included in compilations in the future, and maybe individual games eventually sold on the Atari VCS.

[alucardx]

30 minutes ago, nosweargamer said:

Although I'd be game, I don't think the demand is strong enough for all it would take to make a Jaguar+. A limited run Jaguar mini at premium price is more likely, but even that seems unlikely, since it was only recently we saw Jaguar games re-released on Atari 50. Even Sega said they wouldn't do a Dreamcast mini due to the cost and perceived lack of demand, and that's a console that far outsold the Jaguar. 

I think the best hope for Jaguar fans is that games continue to be included in compilations in the future, and maybe individual games eventually sold on the Atari VCS.

Because so many of the original titles were simply terrible or mediocre at best I'd be more than happy to just stick to the Atari 50 compilation. It isn't worth my money to be some version of the Jaguar that plays the original library and that's that. Of course...I own a Jag so that changes my perspective. I would much rather see a Jag rebirth with something that developers can really toy with.

[Justin]

Also keep in mind the Atari VCS is already out there for Atari to release Jaguar software on.

[alucardx]

8 minutes ago, Justin said:

Also keep in mind the Atari VCS is already out there for Atari to release Jaguar software on.

I've toyed with the idea of getting a VCS and at the end of day the can never justify spending that amount of cash on it. A much better value for me was a used PS4.

In any case, having hardware with a cartridge slot would be cool, much like the 2600+

Edited September 19, 2023 by alucardx
typo

[Justin]

 

 

Who knows, you might get your wish! At the end of this interview (shared in Atari I/O thanks to @TrekMD) Wade mentions the Jaguar and its vibrant community. Maybe they will find a way to do something cool. If they can make the numbers work, why not?

[Chubbz]

If a mini-sd was added, allowing the loading of roms, and a safer way for developers to repackage J.C.D games and sell boxed digital copies of games, would this male such a unit a more attractive proposition?

[Chubbz]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:54 PM, alucardx said:

I've toyed with the idea of getting a VCS and at the end of day the can never justify spending that amount of cash on it. A much better value for me was a used PS4.

In any case, having hardware with a cartridge slot would be cool, much like the 2600+

There's a big update coming to the VCS.

It will likely include the addition of more ATARI legacy emulators.

[Chubbz]

On 9/19/2023 at 5:35 PM, alucardx said:

I guess in those terms that's a tough question. Look at how the PS1 mini did in market. It's hard to say what is "worth Atari's time" in that regard.

I'm not sure what method they'd use to produce such a chipset and especially if it had all the modes I talked about. That will determine a lot of cost. If they did produce the console this would give them another avenue for more retro style games like Mr. Run and Jump to be sold as well as another avenue for developers to find their way into the market. The gateway would be developing the game for the Jag with an opportunity for a wider sales market through other systems with a more modern and enhanced version of their Jag title.

Perhaps a cheap solution would be to offer some packaged form of general purpose hardware running BigPemu and offer BigPemu features in the modes I talked about.

I think that the P.S mini sold so poorly because P.S gamers tend to move onto the next big thing as they are obssessed with graphics.

P.S gamers seem to have little nostalgia when it comes to old systems from my point-of-view.

Also, real working P.S consoles are still cheap and abundant too.

The P.S had every game we wanted, regardless of wether the game would run well on the Jaguar.

I think this is the reason that the Dreamcast is still supported, whereas the PS2 has virtually no indie support.

The Jaguar has character, just like all of the pre-P.S systems.

For me, a Jaguar+ could come in the form of a Jag cart playing ATARI emulator box with all the features I've mentioned (and any others I have missed).

When the Open Lara/Xeno Crisis threads were started they had a massive reponse, so I think that there's certainly interest from outside the scene.

If it followed the 2600+' new and enhanced games, then I think this would make a Jaguar+ coveted by retro gamers.

 

 

 

[alucardx]

On 9/23/2023 at 6:26 AM, Chubbz said:

There's a big update coming to the VCS.

It will likely include the addition of more ATARI legacy emulators.

I think the VCS is cool and it does offer something unique. Even though the amount of hardware you're getting for the price is not terrible, I still can't justify buying one right now. Maybe if it did receive the enhancements for Jag being discussed I'd look at trying to get one, but that is just me and I don't represent anything in the market 😉

[alucardx]

5 hours ago, Chubbz said:

I think that the P.S mini sold so poorly because P.S gamers tend to move onto the next big thing as they are obssessed with graphics.

P.S gamers seem to have little nostalgia when it comes to old systems from my point-of-view.

Also, real working P.S consoles are still cheap and abundant too.

The P.S had every game we wanted, regardless of wether the game would run well on the Jaguar.

I think this is the reason that the Dreamcast is still supported, whereas the PS2 has virtually no indie support.

The Jaguar has character, just like all of the pre-P.S systems.

For me, a Jaguar+ could come in the form of a Jag cart playing ATARI emulator box with all the features I've mentioned (and any others I have missed).

When the Open Lara/Xeno Crisis threads were started they had a massive reponse, so I think that there's certainly interest from outside the scene.

If it followed the 2600+' new and enhanced games, then I think this would make a Jaguar+ coveted by retro gamers.

 

 

 

I think you're right about many PS gamers. I think there are some people that do have nostalgia for older playstation titles but overall would rather play a "remaster" than even think about the jumpy textures of the PS1. Also the PS mini was kinda %!#$& in how it handled it's emulation from my understanding.

For old systems you kind  of have to get people into the mindset of when the system was new. Get them into that world, understanding the story of the games, the system and the time and really immerse them in it because if you don't, there's not much special about some of those games. Especially looking at early 3D. We were in awe of it because it was new but now it looks terrible and what is there to appreciate if you have no interest in that history? I think Atari is getting to the correct approach with this but there is still a price gap where the value just isn't there for so many gamers.

[Chubbz]

The VCS800 will likely never be released in Europe.

There'll be enough demand for a Jaguar+ system in Europe.

 

Thoughts?

[Chubbz]

ATARI states that they love the Jaguar community and want to see even more:

 

 

[Chubbz]

 

[Chubbz]

ATARI asks, "So should we bring the Jaguar back too?"

 

Click the link and let them know:

 

 

[DegasElite]

On 9/18/2023 at 4:31 AM, Chubbz said:

Would the community buy a Jaguar+ if it had these features, and are there any other features the community would like to see for a theoretical Jaguar+ system?

Definitely, MPEG2 support. That way, you could play movies on the thing. They had the MPEG2 decoder cartridge for the original Jaguar, but it was never released to the public. It would have played Video CDs. But, if Atari are clever, they would make a DVD option for the Jaguar+ for movies. But, that may be overkill nowadays since FMV went the way of the dinosaur. I don't know. I think it would be kind of neat.

Definitely make it a RISC system. The Jag was RISC, so why not the Jag+? It would be more on-par with the original then, in my opinion. Also, improved 3D engine. These are just suggestions, though. That's how I would do it.

One more thing. If they could, Atari could try to recreate the original hardware in FPGAs or CPLDs. Maybe, try an ARM-based architecture. Make it stand out. Make it powerful.

Edited October 12, 2023 by DegasElite