Intellivision Amico!

[nosweargamer]

Had a good talk with Gaterooze, Jenovi, SmashJT and Tony last night discussing the Amico announcement that's supposed to happen soon. 

 

[Atari 5200 Guy]

I watched this early in the morning after it went live.  I enjoyed it.  I sort of wish I could have chimed in from a street perspective but I have not been keeping up with it as well as I should have.  When it first appeared on scene I was excited for it.  It sounded promising.  But now, hearing what all has been going on, I'm skeptical.  I was under the impression this system, once pre-orders were filled, would be sitting on store shelves.  Now it sounds like that it might not even get close to that point.

And after hearing the podcast I sort of get a flashback to the movie Tucker.  Practically the same scenario only with different products and, so far, no court involved with the Amico.  But knowing that the world did hit a pandemic mark I could sort of understand the lack of getting the processors that they were after, even if they were on a clearance price.  COVID has had its way of changing a LOT of things which could have made it very difficult for Intellivision to secure the parts they were trying to get. I say "could" loosely.  Just like in the movie how Tucker had to come up with 50 cars in a set time frame while getting parts for those cars was a nightmare and investors were going against him. Everything he was trying to do someone or something was going against him.  One step forward, two steps back.  On paper something looks good, sounds good, intrigues the mind.  Tucker's car did that when the prototype shown was falling apart before the curtain opened (if that part in the movie was true).  

No matter how true it is, there are a lot of, let's say theories, from that movie that could also be true with the Amico.  Almost.  If Intellivision, I mention no names, has not been staying truthful to those interested and invested in the project then they really need to step up their game and let everyone know what is actually going on.  Bottomline, no more BS.  If you are trying your best and can't get seem to be getting anywhere, reach out to the public.  Someone, somewhere, might actually know of something that can help.  

I also agree that Amico, while cool and all on paper, might have been too huge of a project to start with.  Retro gaming is a community that loves the brands we grew up with.  Playing around with those names has a way of upsetting things when a promised project does not go right.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Atari 5200 Guy

[Justin]

Appreciate your thoughts @Atari 5200 Guy but I have to disagree. Tommy Tallarico is not Preston Tucker, nor have big corporate and governmental entities felt threatened enough by Amico to where they colluded to quash the little upstart Intellivision. 

 

15 hours ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

But now, hearing what all has been going on, I'm skeptical.

I think it's always a good idea to be skeptical of people asking you for your money, particularly with Kickstarter projects where they aren't close to shipping a final product. We've seen this time and time again dating back years. It's why we don't allow paid pre-sales on Atari I/O.

 

15 hours ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

No matter how true it is, there are a lot of, let's say theories, from that movie that could also be true with the Amico.

Remember that Tucker wasn't just a movie. He was a real person, and those events, although simplified for the movie, actually happened to good hardworking people.

 

15 hours ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

If Intellivision, I mention no names, has not been staying truthful to those interested and invested in the project then they really need to step up their game and let everyone know what is actually going on.  Bottomline, no more BS.  If you are trying your best and can't get seem to be getting anywhere, reach out to the public.  Someone, somewhere, might actually know of something that can help.  

I also agree that Amico, while cool and all on paper, might have been too huge of a project to start with.

I think people are overthinking this, or rather thinking about it too much. Most projects are crazy and hectic until they get launched. Passionate people who are deeply invested in their ideas and dreams are going to do whatever it takes to make their project successful. It's not always easy and it's not always pretty - usually it's pretty ugly. Missed deadlines, long nights, uncertainty. Most of the time though, the rest of the world isn't privy to this. Most projects aren't created with the world watching every step, examining every decision and discussing it endlessly on YouTube. But Intellivision invited the world in when they campaigned on nostalgia and asked regular "mom & pop" people to pony up $1,000 investments - which is a very small amount in investment terms for what is needed to get the project done, but is a very large amount for most regular people. They should have sought private capital from groups of accredited investors who can lose $100,000 in a project and walk away unscathed as if it never happened. Instead they went to the public with their Kickstarter campaigns etc. and asked regular people - namely classic gamers - to "invest" in their childhood dreams. If it's an investment you're after, longing the S&P 500 or hanging onto SPDR ETFs for a decade or two would be a much safer bet (and likely more profitable!) than "investing" in Amico. It seems like most of the people "investing" in Amico shouldn't be investing at all. The people behind Amico should see that and know better.

Because they've taken money from classic gamers and regular "mom & pop" people, they've opened themselves up and invited the world in to watch what they're doing. Everybody gets to follow the events, the updates, discuss them at length, create "Amico news" and pick apart decisions. This doesn't happen with other products like Legends Pinball, AtGames Atari Flashback 10, 1UP Arcades, or a new kind of toilet paper dispenser. Simply because those projects never asked regular people for small investments, and they never invited the world in to see what they were doing.

There are some exceptions to this - one of the closest to the Amico being the Evercade VS. Beautiful system, reasonably priced, no "dog and pony show", no grandstanding, and they're shipping their product and get positive reviews.

None of this is Preston Tucker though.

[RickR]

4 minutes ago, Justin said:

Because they've taken money from classic gamers and regular "mom & pop" people, they've opened themselves up and invited the world in to watch what they're doing.

BOOM!  This is the insight that I hadn't put together yet to help me understand why this mess gets so much attention.  The same for the old Chameleon too. 

 

 

[Sabertooth]

Just now, RickR said:

BOOM!  This is the insight that I hadn't put together yet to help me understand why this mess gets so much attention.  The same for the old Chameleon too. 

 

 

💯!

@Justin you really nailed it!

[nosweargamer]

So if you didn't hear, yesterday, a day when many where expecting an announcement that never happened, their StartEngine campiagn ended early with no communication. This looks bad. I did a chat with SmashJT about it.

 

[RickR]

6 minutes ago, nosweargamer said:

So if you didn't hear, yesterday, a day when many where expecting an announcement that never happened, their StartEngine campiagn ended early with no communication. This looks bad. I did a chat with SmashJT about it.

 

 

[Atari 5200 Guy]

I watched it and I would feel the same way you guys do.  I'm hoping that the campaign ending with no explanation might be a way for them to stop and rethink/replan a better course of action to bring the machine to light.  I really hope that is the situation.

As for my comment on the movie relation, something about the whole Amico fiasco just reminded me of that movie.  I know Tucker was real and Tommy is far from Tucker.  I'm not sure why the Amico fiasco reminded me of that movie but it did.

I feel bad for the Investors right now.  I would have thought that those behind Intellivision would of had enough respect for the community and investors to tell them what is going on whether good or bad.

[Justin]

21 hours ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

I'm not sure why the Amico fiasco reminded me of that movie but it did.

You should watch the movie "Boiler Room"

[Justin]

[Atari Creep]

 

 

[Justin]

Fresh update and perspective from @nosweargamer:

 

 

[Justin]

Today's updates from our friends @Atari Creep and @nosweargamer :

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding @nosweargamer's discussion on "Could the Original Intellivision Assets Be Sold?" - Yes, that's one possibility! From my personal experience, here are the different scenarios I see potentially playing out:

 

1. The Amico project is split off from Intellivision and sold to some other group or entity, who would likely make some changes and release the Amico without the Intellivision branding. In this scenario, rights to the Intellivision name and original "Blue Sky" software are retained by their current owners. (By retaining the original Intellivision name and software, this leaves the door open for future projects that could arise down the road, such as another Intellivision Lives! release or Intellivision Flashback) The Amico would be in the hands of new owners, who could potentially get it in Costco and Sam's Club for $69 with a bunch of built-in games, or sell it overseas.

2. Intellivision and its IP assets stay together - and is sold as a whole to a new buyer. In this example, Intellivision is bought by a new buyer - could be a single person, could be a Bitcoin billionaire, could be a Swiss banker, could be Atari or Microsoft, who knows. The entirety of Intellivision IP from the original system, the "Blue Sky Rangers" games, plus the Amico hardware and new game titles would be theirs to do whatever they want with. They could continue with the Amico and put more money into it. They could cancel the Amico and put the Amico games out on iOS and Nintendo Switch. They could make the games playable on an Intellivision website online. Atari could buy Intellivision and make all original games and Amico games playable on the Atari VCS. Who knows. It's less likely that Intellivision would stay together 100%. The IP could stay together potentially, but a new buyer likely wouldn't want their existing debt or commercial real estate commitments which are a different thing entirely.

3. Intellivision and its IP assets are broken up and sold off piecemeal - with different assets sold to multiple buyers. (In this example, one group may buy the Amico project, another group may buy the rights to the Intellivision name, a 3rd group could buy Astrosmash, a 4th group could buy Night Stalker, Atari Age could buy Shark! Shark!, etc.) 

4. Intellivision avoids bankruptcy through a new tranche of funding, with major shareholders (Tommy Tallarico for example) selling their ownership to a new investor / entity and walking away from the project. One new investor group or entity could acquire controlling interest of Intellivision by buying out a couple of the larger shareholders, without having to purchase 100% ownership in the company.

5.  Intellivision stays together and avoids bankruptcy through a new tranche of funding, by diluting their stock and bringing on a new majority shareholder - likely a group. For example, let's say Intellivision as it currently exists is divided into 100,000 shares of Intellivision stock, and let's also say for example that Tommy Tallarico owns roughly 20% of that stock, or roughly 20,000 shares. Intellivision could avoid bankruptcy by bringing on a new investment group or angel investor - let's call him "Cousin Steve" - by creating ANOTHER 100,000 shares of Intellivision stock, and offering those 100,000 shares to "Cousin Steve" for $5 Million plus some loan guarantees. Now there are 200,000 total shares of Intellivision stock (not just 100,000 as there was just a moment ago) meaning the total number of existing shares of Intellivision stock have doubled. This means that Tommy Tallarico's hypothetical 20,000 shares no longer represent 20% ownership in Intellivision, but have now been DILUTED to represent only a 10% ownership in Intellivision. They own the same number of shares, but those shares now make up less ownership of the company than they did before - but at least it's still ownership in something that will now have a fighting chance at survival, rather than owning a greater share of a project that is dead. "Cousin Steve" gets 100,000 shares or half the company and likely controlling interest and certainly a seat on the board. "Cousin Steve" would likely also require that staff and salaries are cut in half, and the majority of their commercial real estate entanglements are dropped.

6. Intellivision ceases operations and nobody is really sure what's going on with the assets for a long time. This is more likely than you think. There is the possibility that nobody comes to the rescue here. It's. possible that nobody wants to invest a substantial enough amount of money into Intellivision to each much of anything, and the public (particularly the classic gaming community) is left uncertain of who exactly owns what assets from Intellivision. A nasty bankruptcy could ensue.

[Mockduck]

My guess is they either sell off their IP and other assets to someone else (I could see an Evercade, Limited Run Games, AtGames, or even Atari picking up something like that), or they keep going as a publisher as they could continue to do that and basically meet their philosophical goals. Worst case would be the assets would be dumped by a court or something, and who knows what kind of vulture capital group could tie things up by buying it.

[Justin]

The latest thing:

 

 

[Atari 5200 Guy]

I'm glad I didn't invest in Amigo even when I wanted to.  I feel sorry for those who did.  If Amici manages to come out ill be surprised.  I understand about keeping somethings under wraps but if you have anything accomplished about it wouldn't it be best to just come out and say this is what we have so far?  So I agree with Smash's logic here as hard as must have been.

Do you guys feel that this might have been a quick money making scheme or am I thinking wrong on that part?  

[Justin]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:00 PM, Atari 5200 Guy said:

I understand about keeping somethings under wraps

They should've kept everything under wraps until it was ready to go. They made the Amico public WAYYY too early and invited the public in to watch over every move and offer commentary on every decision Intellivision made. They should've taken an entirely different approach and waited until the Amico was rolling down the assembly line, made an announcement (or wait until that point to launch a Kickstarter or Indigogo campaign which would be used solely to drum up interest in their project) and said to the world "We'd like to introduce you to Intellivision Amico, a new "friend" built for everyone of every age in every home across America. It's rolling off the assembly line now and will be on store shelves in 90 days along with a dozen of our best game titles." By NOT doing this, they jumped the gun in showing this to the public and have effectively made this vaporware akin to the Phantom or Intellivision IV.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 11:00 PM, Atari 5200 Guy said:

I'm glad I didn't invest in Amigo even when I wanted to.  I feel sorry for those who did.

Amico never EVER should've been an "investment" to anybody outside of venture capital groups, a couple wealthy family members, and a few accredited angel investors in "shark tanks" who go into these things prepared to lose their entire investment. Those are people who are qualified to see Amico for the moonshot that it is and are prepared to lose their entire investment, walk away from it unscathed and say "oh well I have 20 more investments just like this, one of them is bound to take off and more than make up for the other 19 that failed." That's how these things are supposed to work.

Instead, "Intellivision Entertainment" is out there with gas approaching $6/gal. asking regular working people to "invest" their savings into Intellivision as if it's going to make them rich in five years. Intellivision is effectively a tech startup company and a risky gamble no different from memestonks like Blockbuster and Gamestop, or shitcoins like Doge and Shibainu.

The shadiest thing about "Intellivision Entertainment" is that they were effective at convincing so many regular working people who had never invested in anything in their lives that they are now "investors" capable of investing their savings in risky startups instead of SPDRs or their 401k. That whole Republic site is trash and should be shut down by the SEC, it's no different than an unregulated securities exchange in my opinion and it's insane.

Beyond that they're operating with overhead of something like $6M per month? They're bleeding money on office space when most of them could be working from home until they've, you know, ever made a single dollar of profit.

What's sad is they already have enough intellectual property to generate the capital they were seeking if they had only been patient. Start small, then walk before you can run. For example, they could've released a new "Intellivision Greatest Hits" game for PS4, PS5, Xbox and Switch. Maybe something simple, like a download. And why not for Android and iOS as well? For Mac and PC? They also could've gone forward with the "Intellivision Flashback 2" that Keith was going to do and gotten it into Walmart, Target, Sam's Club and Costco. Those two products alone would've generated a few million for Intellivision over a Christmas or two that they themselves could invest back into the Amico project. Intellivision could've done something similar to Atari XP, or have been a boutique design house and created a few nice modern games for Switch, again generating some profit to reinvest into Amico. This would've given Intellivision a little time to develop 3 new, modern "killer app franchises" the same way Nintendo developed Mario, Zelda and Metroid. Intellivision could've released these games on the Switch or even the PlayStation and Xbox, generating more revenue and placing the Intellivision name back on the map before launching the Amico. How many Donkey Kong and Mario games were released on ColecoVision and Atari systems before Nintendo launched the NES?

 

On 3/7/2022 at 11:00 PM, Atari 5200 Guy said:

I feel sorry for those who did.

This will come off as insensitive to some but I DO NOT feel all that sorry for those who did. I have empathy for my fellow man and don't want to see anybody ripped off - but people cannot be "investing" money that they can't lose. That's what investing is. 

People have to be smart enough to not even place a preorder with an unknown, unproven company like "Intellivision Entertainment" with no history and no products having been sold. (Remember, "Intellivision Entertainment" is not "Intellivision Productions" or "INTV" and is certainly not Mattel.) At least be smart enough to make your preorder through GameStop or some other retailer that will hopefully exist long enough to honor a full refund. Otherwise you are opening yourself up to risk. People have to wise up. Also, it's okay to sign up for the newsletter and just wait until it comes out. Sometimes it's okay if you don't get the very first shipment, wait until you see lots of happy customers getting theirs first and raving about how great it is online.

Again, this is why presales of any kind are not allowed on Atari I/O. Have you noticed that although @Video 61 announces their upcoming games in our forums we don't allow them to take presales until the game is ready to put in a box and ship to your house, nor do they attempt to hustle Atari I/O Members for presales. They make a simple post saying "Here's a demo of a game we have coming out in 2 months, stay tuned to this thread and we will make an announcement when it goes on sale." It's as simple as that. It's not hard to operate with integrity.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 11:00 PM, Atari 5200 Guy said:

wouldn't it be best to just come out and say this is what we have so far?  So I agree with Smash's logic here as hard as must have been.

Yes. One of Intellivision Entertainment's biggest missteps is having people who come across to some as manipulative / deceptive out there in the public. They've invited criticism when they could've just hired a halfway decent PR firm to make announcements and interface with the public.

The "scammy feeling" comes from where there has not been transparency on issues as they change during development. Normally these events take place behind the scenes, but because Intellivision has been so public about everything, there's so much they owe the public truthful updates on. For example all of the announced game titles in development that sort of disappeared, and what was the story with that guy who was "the father of the Xbox" being touted as a big player on the Amico team when it was first announced? Those are all forced mistakes that should never have been made, and they have been rightly called out on these.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 11:00 PM, Atari 5200 Guy said:

Do you guys feel that this might have been a quick money making scheme or am I thinking wrong on that part?  

No, I don't believe this was a "quick money making scheme". There was nothing quick about Amico and there are much easier ways to separate people from their money. I don't think this was a "scheme" at all, I think you had a lot of people who really believed what they were saying and wanted to put an Amico in every home across America. 

I think this is a matter of tremendous incompetence and a substantial number of the public willing to go along with it because "WOW this is so nostalgic!"

It's always easy to call something a scam when it's not going according to plan. Nothing ever goes according to plan when you're trying to launch a startup or a new project. As I've said before, if AtGames or Evercade or Nintendo or Tesla had asked regular working people to cough up small "investments" and effectively invited the public to view their projects development process - those would all be called "scams" too.

Take for example the classic story about Nintendo launching the NES in US test markets for Christmas 1985, with NOA employees working through the night to deliver Nintendo systems to stores across NYC and LA just in time for Christmas. The stories of Nintendo using the Light Gun and R.O.B. the Robot to market the NES as a "toy" rather than a game system to stores who did not want any new video games after the crash, and Nintendo reps telling toy stores that Nintendo would come set up NES systems for sale in the toy stores and set up the NES displays with a promise unlike Atari to buy back any unsold merchandise after the new year. If God forbid the NES had failed, people would be pointing to these stories and calling the NES a "scam" too. And it likely would've been. It's very easy to call something that doesn't work out the way you want it to "a scam".

If anything there's been a TREMENDOUS amount of transparency on Intellivision's part compared to most projects. With every baby step Intellivision has made we've been greeted with multiple podcast episodes and 2-hour deep dive videos about every little nuance of controller lag. "Look how Finnegan Fox doesn't turn as quickly as he probably should. Let's go frame-by-frame on this." - Groups like Nintendo and Tesla are smart enough to not ever allow that to happen. Nintendo never held "events" inviting the public to come play Switch 2 years prior to its release and comment on it publicly. You never got to see the Nintendo Switch until the design was pretty much frozen and a few months from shipping. They kept it under wraps until it was ready to go and you didn't see the messy chaos that was kept behind the scenes, because that's how professionals act.

[Justin]

12 hours ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

Do you guys feel that this might have been a quick money making scheme or am I thinking wrong on that part?

 

You can’t call the Intellivision Amico a “scam” without calling the Atari Jaguar a “scam”. Where were we all back in 1994 “doing the math” and demanding answers?

 

[RickR]

@Justin, your post is so good and I can't disagree with a word of it.  Well done.

I agree that it wasn't a premeditated scam.  I think it was a dream and plan that was done in the worst possible way by folks that didn't really know what they were doing and in way over their heads. 

I also think it's weird -- really weird -- the have Mr. T calling youtubers on the phone to talk about things but also demand they don't reveal it.  Dude, don't you have any real friends?  WTF?  For me, that kind of encapsulates the whole weird feeling about this system I felt since day 1.  People use the word "cult", and I think a better word is "crusade".  It was made so personal and schmoozy and no professional company would ever run things that way. 

 

[Justin]

53 minutes ago, RickR said:

@Justin, your post is so good and I can't disagree with a word of it.  Well done.

Thank you @RickR!!

 

53 minutes ago, RickR said:

I agree that it wasn't a premeditated scam.  I think it was a dream and plan that was done in the worst possible way by folks that didn't really know what they were doing and in way over their heads. 

Agreed. I think all they really needed was some guidance from stronger people who knew what they were doing.

 

55 minutes ago, RickR said:

I also think it's weird -- really weird -- the have Mr. T calling youtubers on the phone

  -- new official emoji

[Justin]

Breaking Intellivision Amico news from @nosweargamer:

 

 

[Justin]

MORE from @nosweargamer - it appears people ARE receiving communication from Intellivision Entertainment that they will be receiving their refunds:

 

 

[btbfilms76]

Did anyone know about this Gen 2? I had no idea, but I find it funny that the same games being pushed today were being retooled for PlayStation a few years back… also here’s a strange plot twist, Mike Kennedy was involved. 

 

[Justin]

Today's update from @nosweargamer: Did everybody who invested in the StartEngine campaign get their money back? It looks like it, and looks like Intellivision is not taking any money from that campaign. Did they get a new angel investor?

 

 

[Atari 5200 Guy]

Hi guys,

I only asked the questions I did because I was hoping in would get other's thoughts on this system.  I was being biased when I asked it.  

Regardless of the outcome, I was really hoping the Amico would come out.  I still do.  I still want to believe that.  I didn't know or keep up with it after a while because the emails stopped coming.  I had not heard anything else about for a while until NSG started posting videos about it recently.  It was an Oh-No moment for me once I understood what was happening.

I'm still trying to grasp it.  I do believe they jumped the gun once Tommy did a video saying they were working a new Intellivision game console and what they wanted it to do.  Once I saw mock ups of the console I was impressed.  I thought they might have had a working prototype at least but it sounds like they had absolutely nothing solid other than dreams. 

I couldn't afford one even at the first price set they mentioned but it didn't mean that I did not want to see it on store shelves.  It sounded promising.

But, rest assured, I only asked what I asked to gain more knowledge and to understand where others thoughts were about it.  And, I agree, Jaguar sold me on that same poster with titles advertised that never made it. It's best to have something first before saying we got this, we want it to do this, but in reality there is nothing there. I bought the Jaguar based on that poster alone.