Atari introduces NEW CARTRIDGE-BASED ATARI 2600+

[CrossBow]

On 9/18/2023 at 4:22 AM, Chubbz said:

Atari Age are using 2600+' to showcase new games at P.R.G.E.

Not exclusively though as Al has confirmed that most 'Brews' are only going to run on original hardware still. Trust me, there will be a LOT more actual 2600s/7800s in use in their booth vs 2600+ consoles.

[TrekMD]

An we'll be there helping disassemble the booth!  Right? @CrossBow

[CrossBow]

11 hours ago, TrekMD said:

An we'll be there helping disassemble the booth!  Right? @CrossBow

I will not be in attendance this year. The costs for me are honestly out of hand for it. The ITC will be there in spirit through all the consoles folks are enjoying the new games on.

[TrekMD]

Ah, sorry that you won't be there. 

[TrekMD]

Something that may be of interest...

 

[Justin]

It's just the right size  

I question the "design choice" to use the "retro" dip switches on the back of the multicart. I think someone innovative enough could've developed a menu. And it would be nice had they not included games like Surround, and instead included something like Millipede or Stargate on the multicart.

It would also be nice if the cartridge shells were accurate.

[MaximumRD]

2 hours ago, Justin said:

It's just the right size  

I question the "design choice" to use the "retro" dip switches on the back of the multicart. I think someone innovative enough could've developed a menu. And it would be nice had they not included games like Surround, and instead included something like Millipede or Stargate on the multicart.

It would also be nice if the cartridge shells were accurate.

I believe the DIP SWITCHES were necessary because the upcoming 2600+ plays carts by dumping the ROM into an emulator, for the same reason various 3rd party Snes / Genesis / Nes clones that do not emulate hardware but simply dump the ROM to an emulator cannot work with Everdrives or various Flashcards, it cannot understand anything except the code of a single specific game to DUMP into the emulator, so Everdives and the like with it's menu system are just too complicated for the ROM DUMPER to interpret. By using DIP SWITCH you effectively turn the cart into that specific game in that moment so the 2600+ will dump it like any regular cart into the emulation software and run. My Retroit RetroTrio console which is a clone NES/Snes/Genesis emulates hardware so all 3 of my Everdrives work with it just fine whereas other clones such as some made by AtGames or Hyperkin also fail since they also employ the dump ROM to software emultor system. TO BE CLEAR this info comes from a thread on AA in a dedicated 2600+ Q&A thread and not too surprisingly one of the questions early on was if people would be able to use their HARMONY carts with it. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by MaximumRD

[Justin]

1 hour ago, MaximumRD said:

I believe the DIP SWITCHES were necessary because the upcoming 2600+ plays carts by dumping the ROM into an emulator, for the same reason various 3rd party Snes / Genesis / Nes clones that do not emulate hardware but simply dump the ROM to an emulator cannot work with Everdrives or various Flashcards, it cannot understand anything except the code of a single specific game to DUMP into the emulator, so Everdives and the like with it's menu system are just too complicated for the ROM DUMPER to interpret. By using DIP SWITCH you effectively turn the cart into that specific game in that moment so the 2600+ will dump it like any regular cart into the emulation software and run. My Retroit RetroTrio console which is a clone NES/Snes/Genesis emulates hardware so all 3 of my Everdrives work with it just fine whereas other clones such as some made by AtGames or Hyperkin also fail since they also employ the dump ROM to software emultor system. TO BE CLEAR this info comes from a thread on AA in a dedicated 2600+ Q&A thread and not too surprisingly one of the questions early on was if people would be able to use their HARMONY carts with it. 

I totally get all of that. I still think it's not a good look for a retail product. Build a better cartridge or a better emulator or figure it out.

Also, no excuse for Surround as a pack-in.

[MaximumRD]

1 hour ago, Justin said:

I totally get all of that. I still think it's not a good look for a retail product. Build a better cartridge or a better emulator or figure it out.

Also, no excuse for Surround as a pack-in.

Oh sure, agreed, well the dip switch method is clearly the easy "cheap-out" option which sadly always seems to be the way with modern interpretations of our classic consoles. I merely explained all that for those who might not understand why they used dip switches for other reader's benefit and also why for those who might be wondering if their Harmony cart or other flash cart options would be compatible. We just don't seem to get the creativity or quality products or love our Atari products used to, instead, modern holders of the Atari brand seem to always settle on "just good enough". It's for this reason after getting a Flashback 2 I never bothered with ANY of the Flashback devices once AtGames took over. Also, at least a couple of Atari 2600 dedicated handhelds with an "official" Atari branding that some people raved about I had zero interest in looking at their tiny low-quality displays that used emulation anyway, sure maybe they were cheap enough for casuals just looking to relive some nostalgia, I was much happier emulating 2600 on a variety of handhelds and mobile devices I already owned that were far superior hardware devices, I could care less they were not officially branded as "ATARI". Now, the current official holders of the brand are someone else sure, the 2600+ seems to be a nice step in the right direction as well as new paddles with another multi-car,t but I also am very cautiously optimistic and if I am honest, the fact they went the route of dip switches and software emulation does not surprise me because people will still eat it up. In the end, once they are all released, in people's hands, I am more interested to see what the community manages to make them capable of, just like the Retron 77 with the community updating Stella, allowing roms to run from SD etc. While it would be NICE if these ATARI companies released everything we want and wish for in their hardware it's more likely community and homebrew devs will once again make the most of it. Which is better than nothing I guess. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by MaximumRD

[alex_79]

1 hour ago, Justin said:

Build a better cartridge or a better emulator or figure it out.

Stella is one of the most accurate 2600 emulator available and runs basically every known game. But it needs a rom.

The issue here is the cart dumper: a cart dumper is just a cheap trick to give the illusion of playing real cartridges. But it's a trick. It works in a completely different way compared to a real console and it will never replace the real deal.

As explained by @MaximumRD, the dip switches are an easy way to circumvent the limitations of a cart dumper. Dumping a multicart with a menu would complicate things a lot (and in case of flashcart using sd cards, you need real time access to the cart port, which is not how a dumper works).

They could at least have used a rotary hex encoder:

Instead of setting 4 tiny switches, you just rotate the shaft (with a nice knob installed on it, maybe) to select one of the 16 positions.

Note that something like the above encoder would likely be a drop in replacement for the bank of 4 dip switches they put on the official cart (same size, and likely doesn't require any modification to the board to work), so it would be a quick DIY mod...

1 hour ago, Justin said:

Also, no excuse for Surround as a pack-in.

I can't argue with that! 🤣

[nosweargamer]

Has Atari mentioned if the screen resolution can switch between 4:3 and widescreen?

 

[TrekMD]

I've not seen any mention of that.

[CrossBow]

49 minutes ago, nosweargamer said:

Has Atari mentioned if the screen resolution can switch between 4:3 and widescreen?

 

There is a switch on the back that I believe says 4:3 - 16:9 so ...yes.

 

[Justin]

2 hours ago, nosweargamer said:

Has Atari mentioned if the screen resolution can switch between 4:3 and widescreen?

 

1 hour ago, CrossBow said:

There is a switch on the back that I believe says 4:3 - 16:9 so ...yes.

 

That would've been a good way to repurpose the COLOR / BW switch 

[nosweargamer]

 

6 hours ago, CrossBow said:

There is a switch on the back that I believe says 4:3 - 16:9 so ...yes.

 

Thank you. I never saw a clear shot of the back.

And they are using Stella without paying? So it that illegal, or is it legal and Hyperkin simply gave the Stella people a monetary gift for using it on the Retron77?

And does Stella support 7800 cartridges?

(pardon my ignorance on Stella. I never used it directly myself)

[RickR]

1 hour ago, nosweargamer said:

And they are using Stella without paying?

I'm not sure where this info came from.  Confirmation needed.

1 hour ago, nosweargamer said:

And does Stella support 7800 cartridges?

No.  I don't think we know what 7800 emulation is used.

My best guess on both questions is that we don't have good info yet.  And does it even matter?  The VCS uses emulation for both 7800 and 2600 games.  We have no idea what emulator it is...just that it works very well. 

 

[Sabertooth]

@nosweargamer - According to Thomas Jentzsch, the Stella team was contacted by Plaion mid '22 about the project. He also confirmed they are using Stella 6.7.

Also, Stella is GPL and may be used for commercial applications.

Stella does not support 7800 games. I'm not sure we know what 7800 emulator is being used (haven't seen that yet). Hopefully it's A7800 for best compatibility.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

@Justin - Stargate is now Warner IP (through their 2009 acquisition of Midway).  Those licenses are long since expired and Atari likely has no rights to publish it. My Atari dream is for them to get all of the Williams/Midway/Atari Games IP from Warner and put these properties under the Fuji - where they belong.

I absolutely agree Surround is not an ideal pack-in. Maybe they have plans for Millipede and other titles? Wouldn't it be something to see the unreleased GCC version of Millipede as an XP cart?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Sabertooth

[Justin]

6 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

@Justin - Stargate is now Warner IP (through their 2009 acquisition of Midway).  Those licenses are long since expired and Atari likely has no rights to publish it.

I got that, but they put out Berzerk anyway. My larger point is there are some very nice looking Atari 2600 games (Millipede being one) that are more fun to play and show the system off better than things like Surround.

I'm not trying to bludgeon the point home but I think a few small tweaks will go a long way, especially if they're talking about making this available in retail stores.

[MaximumRD]

1 minute ago, Justin said:

I got that, but they put out Berzerk anyway. My larger point is there are some very nice looking Atari 2600 games (Millipede being one) that are more fun to play and show the system off better than things like Surround.

I'm not trying to bludgeon the point home but I think a few small tweaks will go a long way, especially if they're talking about making this available in retail stores.

 

I fully agree a good selection of pack-in titles would have made a far better impression, always nice to get some good titles to kick off a new pick-up, they probably could have done some focus market testing before selecting the pack-in titles.  I think if instead they could of hit it out of the park if the pack in multi cart contained some top tier original beloved games and hey why not one of the better modern homebrews just as a nice gesture? Would have been a great way to justify anyone giving it a chance. 

[Justin]

2 minutes ago, MaximumRD said:

 

I fully agree a good selection of pack-in titles would have made a far better impression, always nice to get some good titles to kick off a new pick-up, they probably could have done some focus market testing before selecting the pack-in titles.  I think if instead they could of hit it out of the park if the pack in multi cart contained some top tier original beloved games and hey why not one of the better modern homebrews just as a nice gesture? Would have been a great way to justify anyone giving it a chance. 

I appreciate Atari making a sincere effort here. I've dreamed of them doing this since the '90s and now it's here.

Missile Command, Yar's Revenge, Adventure I understand. The rest are a bonus, but games like Combat, Dodge 'Em and Surround could be left off entirely in favor of a single gorgeous 2600 game that comes close to delivering "arcade-like gameplay", such as Millipede, etc. If you're buying a system capable of playing Atari 7800 quality games, there should be at least one game included that's at the level of a Millipede.

It's possible they are saving games like Millipede for future Multicart paks that they will release, or potentially another "Enhanced" release such as what they're doing with Berzerk.

There's also huge potential for brilliant new games to be developed for the 2600+ that take advantage of 7800 graphics, build on existing Atari IPs and help redeem Atari's story arc. Imagine Atari supporting the 2600+ with a new 7800 cartridge like "Swordquest: Timeworld" as a new adventure game that could give Legend of Zelda a run for its Rupees. 

[CrossBow]

21 hours ago, Justin said:

 

 

That would've been a good way to repurpose the COLOR / BW switch 

That would be problematic for some games that use that switch for additional functions. Star Master and Space Shuttle for instance. No, them placing the aspect switch where they did, sort mimics where the old channel select switch used to be on the 4 switch units.

Also, yes, they are using Stella as has been mentioned, but it was also recently confirmed that they are using Prosystem for the 7800 emulation. That... is a real shame honestly. But apparently they did look at using A7800 however, the Rockchip in use, just isn't powerful enough to handle A7800. So... yeah, they went with Prosystem.

 

[Sabertooth]

@CrossBow - Thanks for confirming it's ProSystem for the 7800 emulation.  I caught up on that thread and see the Plaion rep (Ben from Plaion) fielding questions. On the plus side (haha), at least their engaging the community. I see where TailChao (Rikki & Vikki dev) recommended a better version that is compatible with his custom cart and the rep at least seemed receptive to bringing that back to the team.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Sabertooth

[TrekMD]

Ah, so if the emulator being used is ProSystem for the 7800, it will have some limitations with newer homebrew games. 

[Sabertooth]

Here's my use case for the 2600+. On certain games, particularly GCC titles, I lose signal on my HD sets. This is on about 10 different 2600 and 7800 consoles on two 4K sets. All accessible processing on the TV is turned off.

The Retron77 mostly worked for this but is incompatible with certain legacy carts, homebrew, the XP line and 7800 carts. While I would have preferred an FPGA solution for homebrew/SD cart compatibility, I appreciate the effort here.

Sure, I can emulate my entire retro library on the modern VCS, but I like pulling out my boxes, looking at the art, the manual, and plugging in the cart. This is the same reason I prefer vinyl over streaming and MP3s.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Sabertooth