Atari introduces NEW CARTRIDGE-BASED ATARI 2600+

[Sabertooth]

One question for modern VCS owners:

Does the announcement of the 2600+ negate your interest in the announced 2600/7800 Polymega module and expansion of Polymega functionality to the VCS? Or are you interested in both?

 

[RickR]

2 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

One question for modern VCS owners:

Does the announcement of the 2600+ negate your interest in the announced 2600/7800 Polymega module and expansion of Polymega functionality to the VCS? Or are you interested in both?

 

Definitely both.  If anything, the Polymega has a much bigger slice of my attention. 

 

[Sabertooth]

And if folks don't know what I'm talking about, here is a link to that topic in ClubVCS.

 

[RickR]

I guess the waiting point for me is knowing if something like the Harmony cart will work on this new 2600+.  If no, I don't think it's the right device for me.  But I still may pull the trigger on it anyway just because it is so cool.

Polymega seems to be a different thing....it would be adding all your 2600 games to the VCS right? 

 

[Sabertooth]

4 minutes ago, RickR said:

I guess the waiting point for me is knowing if something like the Harmony cart will work on this new 2600+.  If no, I don't think it's the right device for me.  But I still may pull the trigger on it anyway just because it is so cool.

Polymega seems to be a different thing....it would be adding all your 2600 games to the VCS right? 

 

Yeah, that's right. You could use the Polymega module to legally add your entire cart collection to your VCS.

Also - for me - my Saturn, PS1 and NES collections.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Sabertooth

[Jinroh]

4 hours ago, Atari 5200 Guy said:

If I had the $130 I would have already preordered me a new 2600+.  I would like to have one even if it was just for a novelty piece. I believe Atari is doing a good thing.

Me too, can't swing it. 😂

[dauber]

Yeah, I'm a no-go on this unless they can guarantee that I can somehow load ROMs onto it via, say, Harmony, Concerto, or Dragonfly...or even via SD/microSD card. For me the attraction is HDMI.

BTW, if you use the interest-free financing option, you actually save three cents. 🙂

[RickR]

Well, just to share my own status, I decided I don't need the 2600+ mostly because I game on a CRT.  If only it had both HDMI and composite or svideo....  I love what Atari has done though.  I may change my mind later.

In the meantime, I *did* pre-order both Berzerk and Mr Run and Jump.  Those are great deals with the box and I'm looking forward to trying them out in November!

The other really cool thing to mention is the very reasonable shipping costs.  $5 for those two games, or $12 for the console. 

[fultonbot]

I think this is neat idea.  Looking forward to it.

[Ballistik]

1 hour ago, fultonbot said:

I think this is neat idea.  Looking forward to it.

You and me both brother! 🙂 Welcome back

[Chubbz]

 

[TrekMD]

Man, a new version of that joypad would be so cool!

[Sabertooth]

Yes, a new CX-78 with an improved d-pad and less mushy buttons would be amazing.

[Justin]

Pat & Ian have weighed in on this - basically expressing concern that Atari 2600+ is running on Stella and not an improvement from the Retron 77:

 

 

[TrekMD]

Saved to watch later!  🙂

[Justin]

2 hours ago, TrekMD said:

Saved to watch later!  🙂

You know on Twitter how people often say “R/T ≠ Endorsement” — the same goes for when I share external content, videos, blogs, tweets, etc. It’s of interest and pertinent to the conversation, but I don’t necessarily endorse the view.

[Scott Stilphen]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:58 PM, RickR said:

I guess the waiting point for me is knowing if something like the Harmony cart will work on this new 2600+.  If no, I don't think it's the right device for me.  But I still may pull the trigger on it anyway just because it is so cool.

 

Harmony carts won't work with it because they use an ARM processor (not simply because of bank-switching like Pat mentioned in his video).

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/354589-atariage-atari-qa/?do=findComment&comment=5311745

Same goes for every cart that uses either an Aria or Melody pcb. 

The system also won't run any original games that include extra hardware (Pitfall II with the DPC, CBS games that have a RAM Plus chip, etc) - 'super chip' games:

https://www.ataricompendium.com/archives/articles/longevity/longevity.html

It also won't run any carts using unique bank-switching beyond common methods like Atari's F8.

Something else about the 2600+ that's now been confirmed by a member of the Stella emulator team - like the Retron77, it's running the Stella emulator, however Atari is not paying the Stella team for use of it:

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/354589-atariage-atari-qa/?do=findComment&comment=5312604

The 2600+ was developed by a game developer called Plaion: https://newatlas.com/games/plaion-atari-2600-plus-console/

Unlike say MAME, Stella is free to be used by anybody, but the fact that Atari is now selling it w/o compensating the Stella team for it, coupled with the fact that Atari is keen on selling repackaged original VCS games like Outlaw and Yars' Revenge for between $50-$100 only reminds me of how far removed from the original Atari Wade Rosen's Atari is.  Considering how Atari has recently buying up IPs of other companies (https://forums.atariage.com/topic/350947-atari-acquisition-megathread-stern-nightdive-accolade-m-network-and-now-atariage/), they could have easily compensated the Stella team.  Those who have kept the VCS alive for me are all the homebrew programmers - everyone from Ed Federmeyer, Bob Colbert, and Harry Dodgson to Andrew Davie, Thomas Jentzsch, and John Champeau.  Those are the people worth supporting.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Scott Stilphen

[alex_79]

A couple of corrections:

2 hours ago, Scott Stilphen said:

Same goes for every cart that uses either an Aria or Melody pcb. 

Melody and Aria board can in theory work, but only if they're just emulating one of the standard bankswitching schemes and the arm is not used as coprocessor for the game. There might be some issues with the timing: if the dumper accesses the cart too fast, the arm inside might not be able to respond in time, as those boards have been designed to work at the speed a real 2600 has. Eprom/roms might be more tolerant to differences in timing. I think that Melody boards are used for the arm enhanced games, but Aria ones are mostly used for some uncommon (but conventional) bankswitching schemes and for ram on cart, which is difficult to implement otherwise due to the 2600 lacking some timing signals on the cart port.

In the past I used an Harmony cart to test a 2600 cart dumper with standard bankswitching schemes for which I didn't own any real cartridge, by flashing it with the usb cable in "single game" mode, that is overwriting the standard bios. In that case it basically becomes a Melody board, and I could dump it just fine. (My dumper was just a software running on a standard 2600 console, so the timing was exactly what the Harmony/Melody was designed for.)

 

2 hours ago, Scott Stilphen said:

The system also won't run any original games that include extra hardware (Pitfall II with the DPC, CBS games that have a RAM Plus chip, etc) - 'super chip' games:

Extra ram is typically not an issue: you can dump a cart with it and it is Stella that will then detect that the game uses it and emulate the ram as needed.

I think that Pitfall II can be be dumped as well (and Stella emulates the chip), but it might be tricky to detect and probably not worth complicating the dumper software just for one game.

 

Of course it all depends on how good the dumper hardware and software is when the 2600+ finally ships, and how easy will be to update it after the fact (and if someone will work  to add more cart types to it). The initial compatibility list that was published on the official site only listed as working a few standard cart types.

Edited September 9, 2023 by alex_79

[Scott Stilphen]

Which homebrews even use the Aria pcb?  I can find very little info about that, or even a photo of it, only that it exists.

The Harmony and I think even the Krokodile can be configured to act like a single game cartridge, but how many people are going to be willing to reflash the BIOS on their carts to do that?  I mean, if you already have those carts, you have a real system to use them on 🙂

The compatibility list that Atari has on their site had some odd/incorrect entries.  They're currently only claiming 3 carts don't work on the 2600+:

RealSports Boxing
Super Cobra
Texas Chainsaw Massacre

RealSports Boxing is a 16K game that uses Atari's standard F6 bank-switching.  Not counting Atari's 16K carts that also used the SARA chip, here's a list of all the other 16K carts that use F6 bank-switching:

Acid Drop - pass
BMX Air Master - pass
California Games - pass
Commando - untested
Crossbow - pass
Double Dragon - pass
Double Dunk - pass
Fighter Pilot - pass
Ghostbusters II - pass
Ikari Warriors - pass
KLAX - pass
Midnight Magic - pass
Millipede - pass
MotoRodeo - pass
Pete Rose Baseball - pass
Pick 'N' Pile - pass
Rampage - pass
River Raid II - pass
Road Runner - pass
Sentinel - pass
Solaris - pass
Summer Games - pass
Super Action Pack - untested
Super Baseball - pass
Tomcat - The F-14 Fighter Simulator - untested
Track & Field - pass
Winter Games - pass
Xenophobe - pass

Atari notes that out of those, all but 3 passed, with 3 being untested.  So what's different about RealSports Boxing?

Super Cobra is an 8K game that uses Parker Brothers' E0 bank-switching.  All of PB's 8K games use this same bank-switching method:

Frogger II: Threeedeep!
Gyruss
James Bond 007
Lord of the Rings, The: Journey to Rivendell
Montezuma's Revenge
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Popeye
Q*Bert's Qubes
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - Death Star Battle
Star Wars: The Arcade Game
Tutankham

The only other cart that uses that bank-switching is DSD Camelot's Tooth Protectors.

Which brings us to Texas Chainsaw Massacre.  TCM is a 4K game!  How the hell does this not work, when Wizard Video Games only other VCS cart, Halloween, is noted by Atari as working?

The list is rife with errors, so it's questionable as to how accurate the info is.  As someone on Atariage mentioned, there's several rare and valuable carts listed as testing good (Air Raid, Gamma-Attack, Save The Whales, etc), as well as several overseas pirate variations, but they didn't have access to a copy of Star Wars Death Star Battle or The Arcade Game to test?  All the Starpath Supercharger cassette games are listed as untested, but the Supercharger itself is not listed.

Scraper Caper is listed, which is a vaporware title!

Atari's Signal Tracing cart is listed, even though it's not a game but rather a diagnostic tool.

Sentinel is listed as working, but this is a light gun game and thus the gun won't work on any (LCD) flat-screen TVs!

Rob Fulop's Actionauts is listed as untested, but again it's 4K.

The Back To School Pak is just a combo BASIC Programming and Brain Games package (along with keypad controllers), and both games are listed separately (and marked as passing).  We know the keypads don't work on the Retron77, so is that going to be an issue with the 2600+?

The Racing Pak is another combo Indy 500 and Slot Racers (along with a set of Driving controllers).  Again, both games are listed separately and marked as passing.  Are the Driving Controllers an issue?

Single Xonox carts are listed as good, but double-ender carts are marked as untested.  For example, they claim Chuck Norris Superkicks and Ghost Manor work (separately) but are marked untested as a combo cart?  LOL Yeah, there's no difference. They're all 8K games and all use Atari's standard F8 bank-switching.

A pirate game like Mafia is listed untested, but "Gangsta Alley" (Gangster Alley), is listed as passing.  It's a 4K game, so any pirate variations of any 2K or 4K games should work.

I could list more examples, but suffice to say this list of theirs just reeks of being thrown together by someone who isn't knowledgeable about the system's library of titles, and the testing results just don't make much sense.  If you test one F8 or F6 cartridge and it works, then they should all work.  If not, then there's a timing issue with the cart dumping aspect, as you mentioned there is with the Retron77.  I'll attach a quick list of the incompatibility issues between the Retron 77 and 2600+ that I've compiled from other folks:

https://www.ataricompendium.com/archives/documents/retron77_atari_plus_incompatibility_list.zip

Part of the problems with the Retron77 was it shipped with an old version of Stella.  Once people started upgrading the system with a newer version, more of the games started to work.  Luckily the system has a USB port which allowed for this to be done.  What we don't know (yet) is if the 2600+ has one as well.  If it doesn't, it might be possible to open it up and mod it to have one.

Atari's whole "No Cartridge Left Behind" claim is just begging someone to sue them over the fact the 2600+ can't run every cartridge, especially since they're already claiming 3 won't.  There was recently a lawsuit with a vinyl company who claimed they offered a "1-step process", which they didn't.  A class action lawsuit was filed and a settlement with the customers reached:
 
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/if-you-purchased-a-mobile-fidelity-sound-lab-original-master-recording-or-ultradisc-one-step-vinyl-record-the-mofi-records-you-could-get-a-payment-from-a-class-action-settlement-301867709.html

My advice to Atari is, either do some serious testing and come clean with any and all incompatibility issues with the 2600+, or sit back and wait for the lawyers to come knocking.

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Scott Stilphen

[alex_79]

1 hour ago, Scott Stilphen said:

Which homebrews even use the Aria pcb?  I can find very little info about that, or even a photo of it, only that it exists.

I'm pretty sure that anything using extra ram on cartridge (e.g. SARA RAM) is on an Aria board. And probably things using some  less common bankswicthing scheme (something different from Atari F8, F6 and F4). But I don't think there's a list of games using it, and as you said, the board has been mentioned a few times by Al, but there's not much info about it apart the fact that it uses a less powerful arm chip compared to the Melody.

 

1 hour ago, Scott Stilphen said:

The Harmony and I think even the Krokodile can be configured to act like a single game cartridge, but how many people are going to be willing to reflash the BIOS on their carts to do that?  I mean, if you already have those carts, you have a real system to use them on 🙂

Yes, absolutely. I mentioned that just to explain that the presence of the arm chip on the board doesn't always prevent the cart for being dumped.

 

1 hour ago, Scott Stilphen said:

but suffice to say this list of theirs just reeks of being thrown together by someone who isn't knowledgeable about the system's library of titles, and the testing results just don't make much sense.

I 100% agree.

Just to add another example: "Custer's Revenge" (lots of 2600 "porn" games in that list!) is listed twice! The second time referred as "Swedish Erotica: Custer's Revenge". One is marked as "pass", the other as "untested"....😄

[Scott Stilphen]

4 hours ago, alex_79 said:

Just to add another example: "Custer's Revenge" (lots of 2600 "porn" games in that list!) is listed twice! The second time referred as "Swedish Erotica: Custer's Revenge". One is marked as "pass", the other as "untested"....😄

lol I missed that one.  I'm surprised people on AA aren't holding that Atari PR rep to task more about that list, besides one person (and as soon as he started asking some serious questions and voicing some notable concerns, the rep stopped replying to him).  I guess most people are fine spending $130 for another emulator box that doesn't support everything... when there's plenty of original systems around. 

[MaximumRD]

1 hour ago, Scott Stilphen said:

lol I missed that one.  I'm surprised people on AA aren't holding that Atari PR rep to task more about that list, besides one person (and as soon as he started asking some serious questions and voicing some notable concerns, the rep stopped replying to him).  I guess most people are fine spending $130 for another emulator box that doesn't support everything... when there's plenty of original systems around. 

There will always be some that will collect anything with an ATARI name, logo on it. It's not for me but I do like the look of it and hope with feedback they can improve some compatibility and features by release.

[Mockduck]

Atari should be paying Stella for its use I think, but not my fight. I am really looking forward to the 2600+. I don't really play many homebrews, guess we'll see, so their incompatibility is less of a concern. For me the main selling point is the simple HDMI out; should be the best current way to capture game footage of your old Atari carts (using an Elgato capture device or similar). Second best is the 7800 compatibility. Third is the newly manufactured sticks and paddles, IF they turn out well. 

[Chubbz]

Atari Age are using 2600+' to showcase new games at P.R.G.E.

[TrekMD]

Sounds good to me!