Reboot has released RAPTOR and RAPTOR Basic for the Atari Jaguar

[MaximumRD]

Reboot has released RAPTOR and RAPTOR Basic for the Atari Jaguar, lowering the barrier to creating new Jaguar games. 

 

http://t.co/Mlh39kvEtI

 

 

Hopefully some great things come of this.....

[DeLorean]

Hopefully some great things come of this.....

 

Hopefully!

[Arenafoot]

Would be nice to get a "completed" Arena Football '95 game for the Jaguar!!!!

[Rumple Foreskin]

Atari should have made something like this. The Jaguar needed more games, maybe this would have got more people on as developers.

[DegasElite]

Atari should have made something like this. The Jaguar needed more games, maybe this would have got more people on as developers.

I agree that the Atari Jaguar needed more and better games than when it started out in 1992-93. It's sad that such an iconic system had such a short shelf life in the stores. I wish I could develop for the Jag, but I hear that it took teams of developers to develop games for it. One person couldn't do it at that time. Maybe, with Raptor, just one person could pull it off now. I am not so sure since the Jaguar is so much more radically advanced than previous Atari systems. Some day, I would love to take a stab at it, though.

[Bakerman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Raptor can only do 2D, right? And is a form of BASIC actually going to be able to tap any true power from the Jag? Even in 2D? I certainly doubt that something like Arena Football could be done with this engine or this BASIC, but please, tell me I am wrong and I will look into learning to program with both myself. But from my current perspective, if I ever intend to do 3D or anything that really uses the Jag's muscle, I'll have to learn Assembly...no?

[A31Chris]

No. You could do it in C. On the GPU.

 

The workaround for the GPU hardware bug still needs to be found for it.

[Dan Iacovelli]

Actually raptor + is the more active for jag programing , reboot dropped the basic for more use of the plus.

I'm planning on working on few games for the jaguar (but still planning to continue bBasic for 2600 though)

7800 is programing with 7800basic is still be planned for me as well

[Dan Iacovelli]

heres a url to the r+ site http://reboot.atari.org/new-reboot/rbplus/

[VladR]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Raptor can only do 2D, right?

Of course ! Have you ever seen CJ attempt to code anything in 3D ? It's several orders of magnitude more complex and time consuming to produce a 3D engine that runs in acceptable framerate on a jag.

 

But 2D ? I spent a single weekend playing with ObjectProcessor List and that's all that was actually needed. Just a simple array of objects.

That's like Lesson 3 in "teach yourself programming in 21 days" book.

 

 

 

And is a form of BASIC actually going to be able to tap any true power from the Jag? Even in 2D?

I believe you answered your own question. Take a look at games produced by reBoo and you can easily see the performance ceiling.

 

Couple of sprites, static screens - just like old times on Atari 800 ! Except it's a 64-bit monster....

[A31Chris]

I hope the 'ignore topic' function works on this forum because that's where this thread is going immediately.

Edited December 9, 2015 by A31Chris

[Bakerman]

What has been said here that makes you want to ignore the thread or someone who has posted in it? Is it simply because the topic is about something Reboot has released?

[MaximumRD]

   ---------------------- RED ALERT! ATTENTION EVERYONE PLEASE -------------------------------   

 

Well put LOST DRAGON, I was about to post similar but you summed it up well. I posted this thread A YEAR AGO and all was fine, no squabbling, no "suggesting" what people should do with it etc. If you don't like something here MOVE ON AND IGNORE IT, we don't need the "drama" or need to hear from someone new they want to "ignore" a topic, you are adults, participate or not, read or ignore, if you cannot post a supportive comment (a "veiled" supportive comment does not cut it) then just don't post anything. We have been trying in subtle (and not so subtle  ) ways for about, oh 3 weeks or so now to get across the point of these forums, what is expected from participants, the community we are trying to nurture and that not only are we not like other forums but that the team here behind the scenes are ready to do what it takes to ensure drama coming from other forums will not be allowed to take foundation here. Leave the baggage from other forums at the door or you will be shown the door. This includes complaining about other forums, we don't want to be known as "that site" that bad mouths other forums as we have members that frequent them as well.  Enough is enough, it is not rocket science, nobody is asking you to sing praises of something you are not interested in or have a personal issue with some aspect of it, if that is the case simply don't post and move on. The way some people have been starting out here they are already on thin ice.

 

Lastly, to the point, I am well aware of the arguments, trolling, constant back and forth that goes on about all things "Jaguar" that went on in threads "elsewhere" and see that type of thing slowly infecting us here and that nonsense is simply is not going to be allowed. That's it, if anyone else goes on about it let's just say you will just be asking for more rope to hang yourself. Too many times people abuse the freedom of discussion on a site and a topic just spirals into petty squabbling and forceful opinions, we are seeing too much of that around here as of late. Knock it off, play nice or move on. This is the last word on this, a warning to all, if it continues by anyone privileges to post here will be revoked permanently. Geez people this isn't politics or religion or other hot button debate topics it's about Atari, gaming, programming, having fun, sharing resources WHY is it so hard for some people to not suck the fun out of every little thing? You have been warned - RANT MODE OFF. 

[VladR]

Arguably  - Jaguar is easily an order-of-magnitude more sensitive area than politics/religion. So, I'm not sure if that was a good example in a jaguar forum - but you already know that very well 

 

I can, however, both understand and appreciate the need to stay out of the drama. Looks like it actually includes non-positive comments about other sites. So, no public complaining anymore. Should be doable.

 

I do admit, it's been a while since I have seen someone use the term 'forceful opinion' on a forum.

I could interpret that, like, in 5 different ways.

 

Can you elaborate a bit more ? What exactly constitutes a forceful opinion here ?

[sh3-rg]

Here's some info on Raptor and RaptorBASIC+ but, I feel more importantly personally, some info from myself and what I've done with rB+ as a beginner programmer.

 

CJ's Raptor is a high performance RISC-based API designed to leverage the performance of the Jaguar's custom RISC chips and Object Processor, in an easy and flexible manner, allowing the software developer to spend more time following their vision instead of wrestling with the hardware. It combines with Matmook's RMotion, LinkoVitch's U235 Sound Engine, Zerosquare's Sound Engine as well as other goodies to allow people a quick and easy way in the door to Jaguar assembly programming (an example here would be Der Luchs - who is on about his 4th or 5th Jaguar game at this point having only ever programmed in BASIC prior to tackling Raptor).

 

RaptorBASIC is a (now obsoleted) interpreted BASIC that was the first attempt to offer Raptor functionality to anyone and everyone. From absolute noobies, to people who dabbled a little in their youth up to anyone who fancied putting their usual programming language and skills to one side if just to allow them to easily dip a toe into the world of Jaguar programming.

 

RaptorBASIC+ is GGN's next level of BASIC programming on Jaguar. It's actually a little bit more than that in a few regards, but that's not something he shouts about too loudly. It's essentially a C-ified Raptor, but with a BASIC-to-C preprocess via a variant of Kevin Diggins' BCX BASIC-to-C Translator. The user sets up Raptor lists by inputting a few values (these closely mirror Jaguar Object Processor lists), then it's just a matter of typing in a few lines of humanly-readable code and you make things happen on screen or in Virtual Jaguar at the hit of a single key. As it's C-based, it's also fairly trivial for the Jaguar C-programmer to gain access to Raptor functionality, but as I mentioned, it's not something GGN talks too loudly about as his intentions were to allow as wide an audience as possible to become creative with their Jaguars (and there had been a number of failed attempts to produce a workable Jaguar BASIC environment), not simply to give C coders a Raptor wrapper. If someone really wishes to program polygonal game software in C and also take advantage of the benefits and features of Raptor, the rB+ package allows them to do exactly that - the "BASIC" part of rB+ is nothing more than a hand-hold for those who don't like the idea of C or find comfort in something they consider similar to what they're used to... you can even create your program in BASIC, convert it to C and then work on the C code directly from that point if that takes your fancy. But really, that's all missing the point... Raptor/rB+ are all about Object Processor porn. GPU running in local scratch memory, handling the Jaguar's kick-arse sprite power from the perspective of keeping it slightly more general purpose, reusable and therefore quicker to create.

 

Who got time for this stuff anyway? :0)

 

Almost a year on and there have been constant updates for fixes, added functionality and streamlining of the whole process of creation. Keep an eye on the official rB+ forums at AtariAge for something around the 1 year anniversary if you wish to get up to speed on the story so far.

 

Over the year I've dabbled myself on and off (mostly off, grafting hard at work and sitting doing thinky things are not really all that compatible for me :/ ). I've never considered myself a programmer, I've always been more interested and suited to the art and design side of things. But even I can give it a go and make stuff happen, that proves anyone else can do the same if they only take that first difficult step and force themselves out of their safe end-user bubble :0) At first I shied away from the Object List stuff and attempted to go about things in a really standard old and familiar way of using BASIC - by PRINTing and PLOTing and other trivial and unexciting things I used to do in my youth sat at my Spectrum keyboard. It was only when I moved on to play around with what is effectively a super-powered sprite engine in Raptor's object manipulation functionality, that it really became fun.

 

So far I've created a simple Frogger game called Doger. It's 98% complete and was only made to be a tutorial project for other beginners such as myself. But since showing it to people and having a little positive feedback, I've decided I should polish it a little and put it out as a more complete release. There's my microFLY game which is a kind of endless runner (flier) sitting somewhere between SuperFly and FlappyBird by most accounts - this too is all but complete. It's got a kind of minimal pseudo 3D effect on the blocking objects and the usual and IIRC over a dozen layers of parallax scrolling. I worked a couple of days on a checkerboard floor/ceiling routine that used RMW shading to some effect for a cheap and easy first-person tank kind of game effect, but haven't gone back to that. Another game engine I worked on for a few days was based on tower climbing and giving a 3D perspective via the magic of the Jaguar's Object Processor scaling and a little Raptor trickery. This is a bit more involved but is still in search of a suitable game concept to take it forward:

 

 

The most recent game I worked on is a variant of Super/Hexagon by Terry Cavanagh that I decided to make after seeing a fun Game&Watch demake version of the game. GGN is thankfully doing the tricky geometry generation stuff that is out of my depth :0) I tweeted a video of a very early version to Mr. Cavanagh just because I thought he might like to see it. I was surprised when  he then retweeted it and hope that hints that he wouldn't be too upset if I released something along those lines for the Jaguar :0) I spent a few more days taking the concept further since that video and feel really quite positive about the possibilities of it, it's a game I will return to with 100% effort once the time is right. TBH I haven't really announced it yet as it's too early, but here's the original few days old version with some random scaling and stuff "just because" (the one I tweeted) and a slightly later WIP version where we were checking out GGN's star level, more detailed facet shading, scaling and overlaying the game objects and some random scaled RMW logo flying just for extra load (both captured at 60fps from Jaguar hardware):

 

 

I've not only done a little work on games (games that, to some people's strict internal taxonomic disposition, might very well appear to be sub-8-bit junk, yet to me they are everything I enjoy and value when it comes to a box with an Atari badge on the front - just plain old fun & fuji. C'est la vie), I've made a little particle playaround thing, a menu for a Jeff Minter CD (yet to be released), and I've also dabbled in creating a few demo-style effects, purely because I find it fun (it's practically all I did for the short time I played around with blitzmax on the PC). I released a few of these together as a demo called "Cloudy With A Chance Of Metaballs" that in some ways is very rough, in others isn't so bad (thinking maybe the fx/audio syncing), in others is a bit of a laugh (doge!) and also manages to demonstrate that rB+ and the Jaguar have a lot yet to be discovered in terms of what might be possible (here I'm thinking the RMW/colour mode abuse lolvalamp screen).

 

Right now I'm back to rB+ing as of 2 days ago and working on a small invitro for a 2016 party that I hope to release before xmas. Here's some screenies of some of the above:

 

 

Probably a good point to make - everything above is 100% 60fps locked on Jaguar hardware. That's Atari stuff as it should be for me - as it always was back in our younger days with those little Ataris. rB+ makes it easy!

 

So as for rB+ going forward, it seems there's no stopping this train... there are plans for additions to rB+ that will put more of the Jaguar's best and most game-centric possibilities in the hands of beginner programmers (some of the stuff I've seen recently from other rB+ programmers is going to open a few eyes, that's for sure).

 

So, all that is left to say is... why did you read all this and, more importantly, since you have - why are you still sat there? PUSH THE BUTTON and go make a game! It's way more fun than playing them (especially given the Jaguar's library ;0)

 

Apologies if this was all just tl;dr, it's just that what CJ did when he created Raptor and even more so, what GGN then did with rB+, actually reignited a fastly-fading flame I had for the Jaguar - BASICally (sorry!), if it wasn't for rB+ I'd be long gone and the Jaguar a distant memory for me... but now I have the chance to be productive with one of my Ataris, make every single 0 and 1 of a project of my own creation if I so wish, and that's pretty powerful stuff for someone like me... so I like to give those guys props and give their efforts a fair chance... when I see the kinds of stuff written in previous posts, it does everyone involved a massive disservice.... and more importantly, mirrors the kind of nonsense that has likely put people off becoming involved with Jaguar programming before they even got to give it a second thought.

 

Be positive and positive things will happen. Attempt to make them happen yourself and... well you might just find out how easy it can be! At the very worst, at least those you won't just be one of those guys who says THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE without knowing the first thing about what that might actually involve, when you have a little better context within which to base future comments regarding games creation :0)

 

 

just my two cents. IF I ever find the time to learn and program the Jag, I promise I'll shoot much higher. Even if I ever learn to program my favorite 8-bit systems, I'll strive higher, and for something new.

 

An interesting position to be sure. But unfortunately, few of us ever manage to run before we can crawl... there's an A and a B before we get to C (unless you're a jagpad, in which case there's a C and a B before you get to A...). What I'm saying is such things are easy to type and promises easy to make, but actions a little trickier to implement and therefore promises more difficult to keep.

 

Luckily, rB+ is very easy for beginners. It takes very little time at all. Anyone with a natural talent or gift would no doubt be able to move on up within short order, bypass the whole BASIC facade and jump into C/assembler to make those kinds of claims a reality. 

 

Nothing stopping you but yourself. Do it!

 

 

Actually raptor + is the more active for jag programing , reboot dropped the basic for more use of the plus.

I'm planning on working on few games for the jaguar (but still planning to continue bBasic for 2600 though)

7800 is programing with 7800basic is still be planned for me as well

 

If you wish to take an existing project of yours and work through it as a porting project from which to learn the ropes of rB+, the offer is always there.

 

The more the merrier!

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by sh3-rg

[The Professor]

Arguably  - Jaguar is easily an order-of-magnitude more sensitive area than politics/religion. So, I'm not sure if that was a good example in a jaguar forum - but you already know that very well 

 

I can, however, both understand and appreciate the need to stay out of the drama. Looks like it actually includes non-positive comments about other sites. So, no public complaining anymore. Should be doable.

 

Hi Vlad, I'm happy to expand on this a bit more just to be sure this is clear.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with opinion or "non-positive" comments about other sites. We advocate free speech and afford greater freedom to constructively voice an opinion, even the most unpopular, than anywhere else. People should be able to say "maybe ET wasn't the worst game ever made" without descending into Lord of the Flies.

 

This has to do with behavior. It's the positive, welcoming vibe of this community. When people think it's somehow acceptable to come into our wonderful community, drag in negative issues from other sites and immediately start complaining before they've so much as made five posts or created an avatar, it's a massive red flag.

 

If you've been here for five posts, haven't made an avatar or joined us in the chat and are demanding an "ignore topic" button then something is wrong. If that's all you have to offer, if you can't stop complaining, then you don't belong here. We're not going to discuss it and drag it out in public. We're going to delete your account and remove you from the site without incident.

 

When you show up to a friend's dinner party, do you track muddy shoes into the house, make yourself at home and complain about the food? Do you monopolize the conversation, or come into his home like Jackie Treehorn's goons, dunk his head in the toilet and micturate on the Dude's rug?

 

 

This aggression will not stand, man. This isn't like other forums and we're not going to pretend that it is. We've tried to create a little Atari Utopia. This is a special place with truly great people. It's a relaxed community with a really good vibe. People are nice here and come to share thoughtful conversation and have fun at the end of a long day. Don't come here and complain about what happens elsewhere. It's not our problem and we don't want to hear it. We came here to get away from that level of conversation and we are going to keep that bs out of these forums. 

 

 

 

I do admit, it's been a while since I have seen someone use the term 'forceful opinion' on a forum.

I could interpret that, like, in 5 different ways.

 

Can you elaborate a bit more ? What exactly constitutes a forceful opinion here ?

 

 

Sure! By "forceful opinion" I think what MaximumRD is trying to say here is that we're not going to allow people to act like dicks. You can express an opinion, but you cannot shove that opinion down everybody's throat like a spoiled child. Here's an example:

 

Opinion: "Hey guys, I really enjoyed the NES. It's my favorite game system. The games were consistently great throughout it's run, it's fun to collect for, and it spawned epic franchises like Mario and Zelda that are still relevant today. I found it to be the greatest system of its generation."

 

Forceful Opinion: "NES is the greatest console ever. PERIOD."

 

That spoils the party for everybody. Nobody wants to be around that guy.

 

Best advice is to JOIN US as part of this amazing community. Join us in the chat, get to know us, make friends, and I would highly suggest familiarizing your self with the House Rules here: http://forums.atari.io/index.php/topic/5-house-rules/

 

 

 

[Dan Iacovelli]

If you wish to take an existing project of yours and work through it as a porting project from which to learn the ropes of rB+, the offer is always there.

 

The more the merrier!

 

I haven't started work on jag programing or 7800 programing.

my first project for jag will prob be continuation of laserman (same for 7800) prob won't be a port since I've alredy did a port of my ti-99/4a game for the 2600

Edited December 11, 2015 by Dan Iacovelli

[DegasElite]

I had heard that there is also a new variant of RB+ that hopefully will soon be released for the public to use called "Bello BASIC." That can be used on Atari 16/32 computers for game programming. I am sure most of you have heard of it on AtariAge right now. It was used to create a mini version of Bexagon for the Falcon, if I remember correctly. It is also being made for the Jaguar, of course.

Edited September 23, 2018 by DegasElite

[DegasElite]

Just a thought, is there a chance that we could figure out a way to have an RB+ tutorial on this forum? I am curious because I wouldn't mind learning how to use the language. I have a copy of Raptor BASIC+ on my PC at home, hence the inquiry. I know that they have tutorials on AtariAge, but I was wondering about here as well. I, myself, have tutorial files for the program. But, what of other potential game programmers that want to make home-brew game of their titles? Also, it may help to get feedback on a site like this as well. Just a suggestion, that's all. Thanks.

Edited September 23, 2018 by DegasElite

[Clint Thompson]

Just a thought, is there a chance that we could figure out a way to have an RB+ tutorial on this forum? I am curious because I wouldn't mind learning how to use the language. I have a copy of Raptor BASIC+ on my PC at home, hence the inquiry. I know that they have tutorials on AtariAge, but I was wondering about here as well. I, myself, have tutorial files for the program. But, what of other potential game programmers that want to make home-brew game of their titles? Also, it may help to get feedback on a site like this as well. Just a suggestion, that's all. Thanks.

I think it's just best to start a thread, don't see why not, but I'm not seeing the Jaguar forums over here very active at all sadly. Everyone else seems to be in either one of the Facebook groups, AA or just keeps their distance.

 

Most of their included demos have a lot of great info and the Rb+ tutorial is included but I feel like that Doger demo may be a little bit much for most and easier or more simple tutorials need to be made that help someone from scratch instead of a ton of graphic objects and lines of code but I think the community is definitely there to help anyone who asks, same goes for here.

 

I'm just about 2 years into Rb+ and have finally started making some really good progress especially after many feedback related issues with some minor buggies that would cause a hiccup here or there. For what it is, it's rather amazing. I could have never done what I'm doing otherwise so I'm truly grateful it exists.

 

I've got a mini game to release soon and a sort of fun tech demo to show as well that I'm almost done with (hopefully end of weekend if not sooner). With that said I think it would be fun to do some quick 5-minute video tutorials on how to program easy stuff for the Jaguar using Rb+, maybe time will permit such a thing after the holidays. =)

Edited October 10, 2018 by Clint Thompson